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In reply to the discussion: Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all]TPaine7
(4,286 posts)26. Here's the case of a woman who didn't flee her home was convicted of murder
Her husband was dead on the floor of their home. She had shot him
after a violent argument, and now the jury was asked to determine
whether it was murder or self-defense.' During closing argument, the
prosecutor emphasized what the state believed was the critical legal
point: Under the law, the jury could not consider the killing justifiable
"unless {the defendant} had exhausted every reasonable means to
escape the danger, including fleeing from {her} home."{2} The prosecutor
continued:
The prosecution obtained a second degree murder conviction against
Kathleen Weiand in the killing of her husband Todd, bolstered in part
by a traditional duty to retreat jury instruction that stated: "The fact that
the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify her use of force
likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating she could have
avoided the need to use that force."{4}
after a violent argument, and now the jury was asked to determine
whether it was murder or self-defense.' During closing argument, the
prosecutor emphasized what the state believed was the critical legal
point: Under the law, the jury could not consider the killing justifiable
"unless {the defendant} had exhausted every reasonable means to
escape the danger, including fleeing from {her} home."{2} The prosecutor
continued:
Did she do that? No. Did she use the phone that was two feet
away? No. Did she go out the door where her baby was sitting
next to? [sic] No. Did she get in the car that she had driven all
over town drinking and boozing it up all day? No. {3}
away? No. Did she go out the door where her baby was sitting
next to? [sic] No. Did she get in the car that she had driven all
over town drinking and boozing it up all day? No. {3}
The prosecution obtained a second degree murder conviction against
Kathleen Weiand in the killing of her husband Todd, bolstered in part
by a traditional duty to retreat jury instruction that stated: "The fact that
the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify her use of force
likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating she could have
avoided the need to use that force."{4}
http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1290&context=mulr&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Ddeclaring%2520that%2520the%2520duty%2520to%2520retreat%2520is%2520premised%2520on%2520the%2520%25E2%2580%259Crecognition%2520of%2520...%2520the%2520great%2520value%2520of%2520human%2520life%25E2%2580%259D%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D1%26ved%3D0CCMQFjAA%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fscholarship.law.marquette.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1290%2526context%253Dmulr%26ei%3DLnJvT7OHFMOfiALd-aTKBQ%26usg%3DAFQjCNHqXtPpYejhLoQRoYLm0em6ni3adw#search=%22declaring%20duty%20retreat%20premised%20%E2%80%9Crecognition%20...%20great%20value%20human%20life%E2%80%9D%22
A criminal took steps that legally dismissed this woman from her own home, but she refused to be dismissed. Apparently, she should have picked up her baby and run out of her own home. Her failure to do so led to her conviction for murder.
Fortunately, Florida law has been corrected on this point. I won't have time to look for more until later today.
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Duty to retreat vs stand your ground and castle laws: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater [View all]
TPaine7
Mar 2012
OP
That's not true. Most confrontations will not go to "kill or be killed" without graduation.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#14
I don't think that the Stand your ground law prevents a jury from determining
JDPriestly
Mar 2012
#12
The essential issue in self-defense as I understand it (and I was not a specialist in
JDPriestly
Mar 2012
#61
'Reasonableness' gets evaluated all the way up the legal ladder.. not all go to a jury.
X_Digger
Mar 2012
#63
"These states uphold castle doctrine in general, ... but... may enforce a duty to retreat"
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#24
Do you also believe that the idea of innocent people in prison in cases totally unrelated to this
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#38
The case was from before the 2005 change, so comparing 2005 and 2011 is irrelevant. n/t
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#75
I don't see why everyone who agrees with gun rights is AUTOMATICALLY an NRA member
TeamsterDem
Mar 2012
#37
I am not a member, nor have I ever given them a penny, though I almost contributed after Katrina.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#39
I think I'll stand my ground and won't allow your made up bullshit and histrionics to make me leave.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#45
I think Florida's SYG law and even their Castle Law need revision. There also needs to be education
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#51
The duty to retreat is a duty to obey a criminal who orders you to flee coupled with a threat
TPaine7
Apr 2012
#90
The bottom line is that he can dismiss you from any public space, simply by offering you violence.
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#48
Wow! Just Wow! Killing an unarmed teen with no legal ramifications is the "bathwater"?
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#31
Perhaps you can read, but I'm seriously doubting your ability to comprehend
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#66
I skimmed over your post and failed to find anything that addresses the examples I gave
Major Nikon
Apr 2012
#95
The false assumption is that without the shoot first law, people go to jail for defending themselves
Major Nikon
Mar 2012
#72
Thanks for your thoughtul response. I agree that the law needs change and that all violent deaths
TPaine7
Mar 2012
#59
Actually I started to say "arrested" but decided that in all cases that is not justified
csziggy
Mar 2012
#65