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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

148. Do you presume that all those people would have lived otherwise?

Reply to KittyWampus (Reply #80)

Mon Apr 14, 2014, 07:24 PM

Apr 2014

Last edited Mon Apr 14, 2014, 11:00 PM - Edit history (1)

A lot of people taking drugs in hospitals are going to die either way.

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Either you believe in the scientific method or you don't [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 OP

Agreed 100%. And I've grown to really hate the word "woo" anyway. arcane1 Apr 2014 #1

agreed. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #4

I suspect a lot of people aren't even aware of what the scientific method is. arcane1 Apr 2014 #19

most people do not understand a theory from a hypothesis. it's incredibly frustrating La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #25

Most people don't understand the concept of "scientific process." Maedhros Apr 2014 #55

That's what allows the Koch whores to pull their "global warming is a religion" bait-and-switch nxylas Apr 2014 #113

I had a professor for an environmental history class mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #54

cf. Individuals such as Timothy Treadwell, Maedhros Apr 2014 #134

The natives altered their environment in North America pretty radically Ex Lurker Apr 2014 #203

There were, and maybe still are, peoples that practice slash-and-burn mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #209

strawman in this sentence, alp227 Apr 2014 #62

As do I. I was trying to think of an example and that was the first thing that came to mind. arcane1 Apr 2014 #67

I agree, but KatyMan Apr 2014 #2

Scientific method is process. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #26

The beautiful thing is that it is a self-correcting process. Maedhros Apr 2014 #56

Exactly! Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #63

It's the best understanding that we have at any given time Gore1FL Apr 2014 #222

But what you're talking about is our knowledge of it, what is happening is still reality cui bono Apr 2014 #240

Ummm... gcomeau Apr 2014 #252

You are either kidding or you are not paying attention. N/T Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #253

Neither. -eom gcomeau Apr 2014 #257

not correct. knowledge gained through the methodology is often shown to be invalid... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #293

Oh really? gcomeau Apr 2014 #297

Yes really!!... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #298

Sigh... gcomeau Apr 2014 #299

Moving through the rest of the list... gcomeau Apr 2014 #300

you are confusing technology/engineering with scientific knowledge... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #326

No... I'm not. gcomeau Apr 2014 #327

Well, I was being glib...n/t KatyMan Apr 2014 #255

Agreed. The whole POINT of the scientific method is that subjective preferences don't apply. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #3

very true! La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #7

Actually there is a subjective preference that applies. eomer Apr 2014 #250

Occam isn't subjective when properly understood. gcomeau Apr 2014 #254

There is no way of knowing that - "the least improbable assumptions". eomer Apr 2014 #259

Yes, there is. gcomeau Apr 2014 #264

You're switching between simplicity and probability as if they're the same, but they're not. eomer Apr 2014 #268

Yeah... gcomeau Apr 2014 #269

Most people don't understand scientific method. Avalux Apr 2014 #5

I agree. In the case medical science, we want the null hypotheses to be wrong La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #9

If it could be proven tea and ginger work as well as penicillin, scientists would be thrilled. Avalux Apr 2014 #12

Some scientists are set in their ways mindwalker_i Apr 2014 #58

It does. cab67 Apr 2014 #83

I wholeheartedly agree with your post and Mindwalker's. Science isn't immune to corruption. nt adirondacker Apr 2014 #202

Science isn't immune to corruption. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #251

There is a general belief among some liberals that science has been co-opted Maedhros Apr 2014 #59

Are you denying that corporate america misuses "science"? kristopher Apr 2014 #109

Whenever I speak of "science" I am referring to the scientific method. Maedhros Apr 2014 #137

Correct. Science cannot be misused; it is based on laws. Avalux Apr 2014 #185

Science is a human activity, and as such, it certainly can be misused. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #200

The scientific process is sound. Maedhros Apr 2014 #227

The data gained from the scientific process can be misused, used as propaganda, hyperbole,... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #294

It's a process, but it can be carried out badly or ineffectually. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #295

of course it can. Methods are rarely, if ever, perfect, but then it is up to the next... yawnmaster Apr 2014 #296

what is a proven treatment though? hfojvt Apr 2014 #206

I find it strange you use the word believe to describe scientific method. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #6

i struggled with the word belief too, but i couldn't think of a better word La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #8

It is tricky. Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #21

Excellent post YoungDemCA Apr 2014 #24

Thanks! Big Blue Marble Apr 2014 #39

it far more arrogant to claim something works, then to claim La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #30

+1000 Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #201

If you "accept" the basic principles of reason, then the scientific method flows logically from them FarCenter Apr 2014 #218

but i couldn't think of a better word AlbertCat Apr 2014 #256

thanks for the link and your posts Big Blue Marble... Locrian Apr 2014 #36

DU is FULL of what I call 'situational' ethics. Take the recent Bundy case in NV. MANY kelly1mm Apr 2014 #10

or the 'people should respect the president' La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #11

HOLY SHIT! DID I READ WHAT I THOUGHT I READ?!? Give me a sec........ A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #40

Well, there is a reason to insist on more containers on trains Maedhros Apr 2014 #65

Excuse me while I.... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #103

To be fair, every one of those containers arrived at the rail yard via a truck. arcane1 Apr 2014 #112

And thereby inceasing the transportation costs by 50% A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #123

This message was self-deleted by its author arcane1 Apr 2014 #125

Welcome to the ignore list! Maedhros Apr 2014 #139

Ah! Ah! uh...uh...um...ummmmmm A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #214

Since productivity has increased by a factor or four or more since the end of WW II-- eridani Apr 2014 #154

There's no need to say 'fuck the truckers', Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #228

There's a fine line between being facetious ...... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #238

I wasn't sure. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #244

made my living in that capacity for most of the last 27 years. AlbertCat Apr 2014 #260

I've got an idea for what you can do with your rolling eyes and snark.... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #284

Awwwww... AlbertCat Apr 2014 #292

But Bundy had been in contempt of court for a long time alp227 Apr 2014 #177

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that in both cases there is a valid court order, kelly1mm Apr 2014 #195

Frequently the argument being made on the behalf of the homeowners truebluegreen Apr 2014 #265

Actually, no, it does not. The validity of a court order depends not on how it was obtained, but kelly1mm Apr 2014 #272

And I was specifically referencing the validity of the court orders. nt truebluegreen Apr 2014 #285

OK - so if a state court judge in the state where the property is located signs an order kelly1mm Apr 2014 #288

That is human nature, I'm afraid. alarimer Apr 2014 #182

It happens on the right, too Ex Lurker Apr 2014 #204

Probably moreso on the right. But we know they are not clear thinkers! lol! nt kelly1mm Apr 2014 #210

Science isn't a democracy. You don't get to pick which hypotheses "work for you." NuclearDem Apr 2014 #13

Way WAY too thoughtful for DU's peanut gallery here. closeupready Apr 2014 #14

LOL. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #15

How have you been? Hope you are enjoying the nice weather? closeupready Apr 2014 #17

the nice weather is only 3 days old and i am sceptical that we will be sucked into another La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #18

Oh, and 'woo' is not really a word - it exists on DU and nowhere else. closeupready Apr 2014 #16

No. It's a term coined by James Randi, and is used in a ton of places. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #20

It is not used in tons of places - it's used here on DU only. closeupready Apr 2014 #27

You've got to be kidding me. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #29

this post is a little dramatic for the statement that closeupready made La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #35

Well, I've personally never seen it used elsewhere; but having said that, closeupready Apr 2014 #48

I heard the term a lot in the 90's noiretextatique Apr 2014 #187

LOL, really? Or just messing with us? nt Logical Apr 2014 #34

+1000. I've never heard or seen "woo" used like this anywhere else either. quinnox Apr 2014 #37

Uhm, yeah, about that... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #84

It is unfortunate... xocet Apr 2014 #108

Yes, though I love the series of videos from University of Nottingham... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #142

Thanks, though, for reminding me that those videos exist - I should watch them. n/t xocet Apr 2014 #153

"... it's used here on DU only." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #47

A polite correction: Nevernose Apr 2014 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Apr 2014 #79

Wow, really? It's not just here on DU. Thor_MN Apr 2014 #104

Nooo PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #126

I encountered the term first via James Randi, long before I saw it on DU. arcane1 Apr 2014 #22

+1. closeupready Apr 2014 #28

I hate it, too Art_from_Ark Apr 2014 #141

PZ Myers uses "woo" Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #32

Okay, I guess I was wrong. closeupready Apr 2014 #52

Woo is a word but it mean something else gollygee Apr 2014 #61

I'm afraid that's nonsense. Try Google, RationalWiki, Wikipedia, Skepdic.com, etc. etc. mr blur Apr 2014 #69

Whatever. closeupready Apr 2014 #76

Woo is used by actual skeptics on a regular basis. HuckleB Apr 2014 #277

As to the word "woo," I'm going to continue to use it until there no longer is any woo out there. Archae Apr 2014 #23

heroic! G_j Apr 2014 #42

I'm with you!!! HuckleB Apr 2014 #278

I like your rant except where you mention belief in the scientific method. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #31

actually belief is the right word there. a process might be perfect La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #33

On the other hand..... A HERETIC I AM Apr 2014 #51

I believe in méthode champenoise whatchamacallit Apr 2014 #38

I don't think the problem is with the method The Straight Story Apr 2014 #41

If a false paper is published, it is QUICKLY peer reviewed and called out. Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #91

Well, The Straight Story Apr 2014 #97

A lot of science reporting is almost as bad as the woo stuff Chathamization Apr 2014 #129

Correlation is not causation. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #232

I have a friend with which I discuss politics, history, literature and philosphy. Maedhros Apr 2014 #282

I believe in the scientific when it suits my political leanings, TheManInTheMac Apr 2014 #43

. libodem Apr 2014 #44

trust and belief both imply faith. had i used trust, i would have had La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #45

You may be entirely correct libodem Apr 2014 #49

not offensive at all La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #50

. libodem Apr 2014 #53

k&r Puzzledtraveller Apr 2014 #46

Science is simple RobertEarl Apr 2014 #57

yes, it is not perfect. it is better than guesswork though. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #66

Some 'alternative' medicines do 'work' RobertEarl Apr 2014 #71

ii am not saying something that is natural cannot be shown to work. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #77

How did we ever survive? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #87

We didn't survive... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #92

No it wasn't RobertEarl Apr 2014 #102

You're denying that life expectancy is not much longer now than it was Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #111

There have been many who lived a hundred years or more RobertEarl Apr 2014 #115

It falls down to the AVERAGE. Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #120

Science helped, you say? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #127

Science IDENTIFIED the pollutants... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #157

Hey, I believe in science RobertEarl Apr 2014 #161

Animals have senses that we don't have... Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #163

Memory is not written in DNA. Reflex actions are. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #166

Are you seriously not aware that the "average life expectancy" truebluegreen Apr 2014 #267

We survived by fucking like rabbits and mourning a lot more dead relatives than we do now. arcane1 Apr 2014 #107

Ever walked in a really old cemetary? Did you notice how many of the stones were for children? LeftyMom Apr 2014 #156

My grandmother lost her brother in the 1920's, before antibiotics were readily available. alarimer Apr 2014 #184

My grandmother lost her mom and two siblings around then. LeftyMom Apr 2014 #186

F'ing acorns, how do they work? pffshht Apr 2014 #81

All we do is read the signs of the acorn RobertEarl Apr 2014 #89

Jesus holds a gun to the acorn's head and says, "Be a tree, man, cuz we don't like ACORN." valerief Apr 2014 #93

"No one has yet understood what is in that acorn that tells the acorn this is what the acorn... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #96

We know it to be a mystery RobertEarl Apr 2014 #106

Actually we do know, what are you babbling about? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #118

You have a bad attitude RobertEarl Apr 2014 #130

I have a bad attitude because one of your key arguments is that you are ignorant... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #136

Whatever RobertEarl Apr 2014 #143

What is precisely the mystery here according to you? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #146

You know it all? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #149

What "creativity"? You are using words that make no sense in context. Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #152

deep dude real deep snooper2 Apr 2014 #158

If one does not think evolution is a sufficient theory, it would be a mystery.... xocet Apr 2014 #133

Yes. Energy RobertEarl Apr 2014 #138

"...or what makes it energetic...." LOL xocet Apr 2014 #155

Looking in the mirror, are you? RobertEarl Apr 2014 #160

The acorn doesn't know anything; it doesn't need to. pffshht Apr 2014 #114

Nice try RobertEarl Apr 2014 #121

What is it we don't know about acorns? cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #147

We know plenty about how oak tree reproduction works and why acorns exist. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #162

"...then you deduct...." What a clever use of 'deductio' ad absurdum! Not many can follow that. xocet Apr 2014 #211

take horse piss for menopause and get breast cancer and die. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #60

You're talking about a concept that was started in 1943 and ended in 1975. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #64

Taking Medication As Prescribed Is Leading Cause Of Death: KittyWampus Apr 2014 #80

I just googled it, assuming the study from 1998 is what you are referencing, its between 4th to 6th Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #88

Do you presume that all those people would have lived otherwise? cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #148

Sure, it happens. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #237

My mother was taking horse piss in the 1990's Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #205

Do you have link to a paper or study proving your assertion? Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #86

Liberals can have it both ways, 3 ways, any number of ways IronLionZion Apr 2014 #68

actually the protocol behind medical science requires no art. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #70

Reality check- Medical Science is done inside a laboratory. Even drug trials aren't the real world. KittyWampus Apr 2014 #82

That's only for the first parts, then its taken out of the laboratory for things such as human... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #99

Living beings are not all the same IronLionZion Apr 2014 #151

Body chemistry is too complex to reduce things to black and white riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #167

Reiki very likely is woo. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #241

You can have woo and science too IronLionZion Apr 2014 #245

Sure. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #246

Thank you, IronLionZion. Cha Apr 2014 #173

You're absolutely right about the word "woo" Nevernose Apr 2014 #72

actually, i think pseudoscience is a great word. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #74

Yeah, cuz liberals are all endorsing vibrating water. valerief Apr 2014 #73

LOL. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #78

The current system for testing medications is a long, expensive, complex process cally Apr 2014 #85

you really think big pharma could not make money out of homeopathy or ayurveda? La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #90

If big pharma could sell sugar pills Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2014 #94

Yeah, they are big in the "alternative" industry, I don't understand why people... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #122

only if the compound could be patented. Plus, I see many posters cally Apr 2014 #128

They can't be patented. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #208

Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence naturallyselected Apr 2014 #95

Actually, science isn't dependent on "belief". Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2014 #98

Your point is fine, but the argument is weak. kristopher Apr 2014 #100

Agreed, but sometimes science can be a little slow, as in the case of cannabis. Zorra Apr 2014 #101

That's more about politics than science, though. HuckleB Apr 2014 #279

When politics determines which science is valid, then "Houston...we have a problem". Zorra Apr 2014 #324

Woooooooooooooooooooo I hate it! dead_head Apr 2014 #105

Science and industry are not the same things. arcane1 Apr 2014 #116

I totally agree dead_head Apr 2014 #131

What was his reply? arcane1 Apr 2014 #132

He wanted to stop the conversations dead_head Apr 2014 #135

"the problem is the industry and the profit driven system" arcane1 Apr 2014 #171

Bingo dead_head Apr 2014 #220

Who ever thought that in 2013 we would still be having yuiyoshida Apr 2014 #110

Most hilarious homeopathic statement ever... onager Apr 2014 #117

They just needed to think more positively arcane1 Apr 2014 #119

lol. that is a great story La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #145

So...is DU officially shifting to "Woo Culture?" It's hard to keep up. Atman Apr 2014 #124

Because there are too many times in my medical life when the answer is no one knows. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #140

excellent post G_j Apr 2014 #150

agree. nt bananas Apr 2014 #159

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #165

I just get so tired of a binary view, when it is really a spectrum. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #164

Agreed 110%. Body chemistry is sufficiently different from person to person riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #168

The working theory for my daughter's disease Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #174

My sister coded (died) during a colonoscopy. Destroyed her liver and kidneys. riderinthestorm Apr 2014 #180

Reminds me of what my surgeon said Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #196

Brilliant, excellent post! Wish there was a rec for replies. nationalize the fed Apr 2014 #169

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #175

Great post BuddhaGirl Apr 2014 #170

Thanks. n/t Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #176

you are conflating a lot of different issues in this post La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #192

No - I am actually expanding back out Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #199

There is a big difference within the "professions," however. HuckleB Apr 2014 #283

Your experience differs from mine in traditional medicine - Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #286

IOW, you want your provider to be dishonest. HuckleB Apr 2014 #287

No clue where you are getting that from. Ms. Toad Apr 2014 #291

Well said. nt Zorra Apr 2014 #310

K&R Tom Ripley Apr 2014 #144

What about the problem of reversals in medical science? kwassa Apr 2014 #172

Again, the problem here is the conflation of "science" and "technology." Maedhros Apr 2014 #190

This is why the public, an educated public, might have little faith in science. kwassa Apr 2014 #191

What are these areas of scientific investigation in which you claim the practitioners Maedhros Apr 2014 #194

Medical science, primarily kwassa Apr 2014 #198

And what would be your suggested alternative to the scientific method? Maedhros Apr 2014 #207

I am not suggesting an alternative. I am pointing out why alternative thinking is popular. kwassa Apr 2014 #231

I'd say it's mostly the result of poor science curricula in the schools and universities Maedhros Apr 2014 #243

People can be highly educated within a very narrow specialty kwassa Apr 2014 #271

The entire point of a "university" used to be to produce well-rounded graduates Maedhros Apr 2014 #273

I was a fine arts major ... kwassa Apr 2014 #274

My experience with the students I taught while in graduate school was sobering. Maedhros Apr 2014 #275

The American public has no clue how clinical research works. Avalux Apr 2014 #213

Thanks for the gratuitous insult. kwassa Apr 2014 #235

That's part of the process. Science does correct itself, eventually. HuckleB Apr 2014 #280

If you are talking about the "scientific method". sendero Apr 2014 #178

Ridiculous strawman. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #179

Ridiculous nonsense.. sendero Apr 2014 #181

Pure nonsense. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #183

I totally believe in the scientific method.. sendero Apr 2014 #212

I have to concur with NuclearDem. Maedhros Apr 2014 #189

The scientific method did not result in the recall. Maedhros Apr 2014 #188

And I don't want to talk to a scientist... progressoid Apr 2014 #193

I accept the scientific method as the best means we have for understanding the material universe Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #197

Exactly dead_head Apr 2014 #219

I made a post earlier in the thread about this. Maedhros Apr 2014 #233

That's blow-back against Koch backed GOP anti-science campaigns kristopher Apr 2014 #276

That's perfectly acceptable. Maedhros Apr 2014 #229

I know that. My mother is a scientist. Crunchy Frog Apr 2014 #248

I agree. There is an element of "Science = Truth" in some arguments. Maedhros Apr 2014 #261

I 100% Dorian Gray Apr 2014 #215

It is a stretch of the imagination to think that big pharma follows the "scientific method". randr Apr 2014 #216

yet, amazingly a large part of these studies come from research universities and not big pharma. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #224

Follow the money randr Apr 2014 #226

Since the early 90's, public research funding for American and Canadian universities Maedhros Apr 2014 #234

Bingo randr Apr 2014 #270

Given their spoty record, some of the science types . . FairWinds Apr 2014 #217

yes, ofcourse i have read kuhn on scientific paradigms La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #223

Plate tectonics wasn't fully fleshed out until about 1967. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #225

There's a conflict between belief in the scientific method and appeals to authority. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #221

either you believe in being self righteous and condescending or you don't. liberal_at_heart Apr 2014 #230

You obviously didn't read too much of the thread. Atman Apr 2014 #236

The scientific method is not something you can "believe in" Kermitt Gribble Apr 2014 #239

I find it odd that you associate anti-vaxxers and homeopathy with liberals. RedCappedBandit Apr 2014 #242

no, i associate the hypocrisy with liberals (condemning and exalting science, when convenient) La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #247

While Professor Feynman would certainly agree..... DeSwiss Apr 2014 #249

I would refrain from citing "What The Bleep Do We Know?" Maedhros Apr 2014 #258

I don't care about ANY of that. DeSwiss Apr 2014 #262

I spent a great deal of time with x-ray diffraction, fluorescence analysis Maedhros Apr 2014 #266

Feynman would be the exact opposite of the crap in "What the Bleep." HuckleB Apr 2014 #281

Scientific evidence is the standard, as far as it goes. truebluegreen Apr 2014 #263

Nice accusations. HuckleB Apr 2014 #289

Who is this mythical 'we' you speak of? idendoit Apr 2014 #290

Maybe you would prefer to deal with robots, rather than humans. JEFF9K Apr 2014 #301

What about the trilas which have not undergone the scientific method study darkangel218 Apr 2014 #302

... NuclearDem Apr 2014 #308

Irrelevant to the Big Pharma you mean. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #309

Irrelevant to people actually developing treatments NuclearDem Apr 2014 #311

BS. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #314

Homeopathy isn't downplayed because of Big Pharma. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #316

Homeopathy is not the only natural cure. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #317

Homeopathy isn't a cure at all. It's barely even a treatment. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #320

Its the placebo treatment which has been found to help a number of afflictions . darkangel218 Apr 2014 #321

Because frankly all the other "natural" treatments are too crazy to get into. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #322

LMAO!!! darkangel218 Apr 2014 #323

Feeling's mutual. nt NuclearDem Apr 2014 #325

Totally agree... Tikki Apr 2014 #303

Are you conducting scientific studies? darkangel218 Apr 2014 #304

But you realize many, many have died waiting for a 'sure cure' to work. Tikki Apr 2014 #305

Many terminals , you mean. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #306

Let's talk about 'gall bladder disease' and those who have died.. Tikki Apr 2014 #307

Alternative treatments should be scientifically studied darkangel218 Apr 2014 #313

Keep going. NuclearDem Apr 2014 #315

Whatever lol. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #318

Ahh..The eternal quest for Certainty.... Junkdrawer Apr 2014 #312

Certainty is where the money is. nt darkangel218 Apr 2014 #319

i am kicking this since i dont want to say it again, and we are on this topic La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #328