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bullwinkle428

(20,645 posts)

19. DAYUM! First post in - "Comrade Danny shoulda done time in the stripey-hole!"

Reply to MohRokTah (Reply #1)

Fri May 30, 2014, 09:48 AM

May 2014

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Daniel Ellsberg: Snowden would not get a fair trial – and Kerry is wrong [View all] n2doc May 2014 OP

The only reason Ellsberg didn't do time was because Nixon screwed the pooch. MohRokTah May 2014 #1

Ellsberg is a hero. The SC ruled that when the information exposed by patriots like him and Snowden sabrina 1 May 2014 #9

Which Supreme Court Ruling Are You Referring To? jberryhill May 2014 #15

There have been a few, the press's 1st Amend. rights to publish information the public has a sabrina 1 May 2014 #28

NY Times v. United States wasn't premised on a "right to know" trumping a law jberryhill May 2014 #44

Snowden could not get a fair trial in the US. JDPriestly May 2014 #62

Not "fair" because the outcome would not be what he wants? nt kelliekat44 May 2014 #64

Not "fair" because the jury pool has been tainted beyond hope. JDPriestly May 2014 #74

And if you can show the jury was tainted, you can overturn a conviction jberryhill May 2014 #78

If you call prosecutorial misconduct procedural; and Ellsberg himself merrily May 2014 #150

Not fair because under the guise of "national avebury May 2014 #121

"tainted by the statements made by careless members of the government" jberryhill May 2014 #77

Wow. merrily May 2014 #147

Then how has he developed such a cult following? rep the dems May 2014 #108

Thurgood Marshall probably would. English Legal Scholar Blacksne would rpannier May 2014 #145

I completely agree... rep the dems May 2014 #158

How does anyone develop a cult following? merrily May 2014 #152

I didn't intend to suggest that his followers were right or wrong about anything rep the dems May 2014 #159

Yes, it does hold up. The jury is supposed to be impartial. merrily May 2014 #177

The government's stance on the matter doesn't make it impossible to find an impartial jury rep the dems Jun 2014 #184

Do you have any case or anything else to cite for any of that? merrily Jun 2014 #185

For Eddie having a lot of people who think he did the right thing? rep the dems Jun 2014 #189

Why do you think the First Amendment was included in the Bill of Rights in the merrily May 2014 #142

Please link to SC ruling karynnj May 2014 #21

You describe perfectly the extent of the abuse of classification and secrecy laws. JDPriestly May 2014 #57

Your consistent and unconditional defenses of Kerry are touching, but off base in this instance. merrily May 2014 #137

The Ellsburg and Snowden cases are completely different from completely different eras.... George II May 2014 #49

Correct, Ellsberg was not treated the way, eg, Chelsea Manning was, he was not held in isolation sabrina 1 May 2014 #69

True. In Ellsberg's day, Democrats didn't throw him under the bus, but praised him; merrily May 2014 #139

Things definitely have changed, haven't they? No Dem would have the courage to do that sabrina 1 May 2014 #168

Yep. Go to your left your right (your right, your right). So wrong. merrily May 2014 #171

Could you take the time to explain exactly how Ellsburg is truedelphi May 2014 #164

That was good. Thank you. Luminous Animal May 2014 #167

Exactly, Sabrina. Torturers are not even named although torture violates international law JDPriestly May 2014 #55

+1 Enthusiast May 2014 #80

This is the issue that made me become a Democrat. nilesobek May 2014 #143

Many, especially transexuals, consider the treatment of Chelsea Manning to have been torture. merrily May 2014 #144

Excellent post, thank you. No moral human being has EVER condoned torture. Manning sabrina 1 May 2014 #174

Totally agree with all your statements... Rockyj May 2014 #79

Good points, Sabrina. merrily May 2014 #155

So, I see you're on record that Ellsberg deserved prison too. dawg May 2014 #10

All the way up to the prosecutorial misconduct, yes. MohRokTah May 2014 #12

That's proof that Ellsburg did get a fair trial. nt msanthrope May 2014 #16

Yep. MohRokTah May 2014 #18

LOL, talk about re-writing history. former9thward May 2014 #23

Here's a cluem guy: the courts ARE PART of the government ConservativeDemocrat May 2014 #72

NO, the courts DID NOT "caught on to this". former9thward May 2014 #73

Not to put too fine a point on this... ConservativeDemocrat May 2014 #113

That's just it rep the dems May 2014 #106

Yes, apparently "fair trial" is synonymous with "getting off scott free" to Snowden fans Number23 May 2014 #112

No, Ellsberg is not saying that. He is saying that things now are not like they were in the 1960s, merrily May 2014 #180

DAYUM! First post in - "Comrade Danny shoulda done time in the stripey-hole!" bullwinkle428 May 2014 #19

ACtually, he shouldn't have because an over-zealous prosecution engaged in misconduct. MohRokTah May 2014 #20

The Espionage Act defiles our legal system. JDPriestly May 2014 #53

That's you're opinion. MohRokTah May 2014 #75

Did the government overstep with Manning? nt grasswire May 2014 #56

The prosecutors did absolutely nothing wrong in the anning case. MohRokTah May 2014 #76

"Manning had a fair trial under the laws governing the Uniform Code of Military Justice." greiner3 May 2014 #118

Manning was not tortured. eom MohRokTah May 2014 #119

Naked in solitary. Meh, you must do that before breakfast. nt elias49 May 2014 #133

Your opinion is different from that of non-government, not for profit experts on torture. merrily May 2014 #146

Recommend... KoKo May 2014 #166

I don't think a case about our allegedly anti-terra actions would be dismissed after 911. merrily May 2014 #122

hed be locked away indefinitely like they did to manning leftyohiolib May 2014 #2

Chelsea Manning did not get a fair trial and the sentence is outrageous. nilesobek May 2014 #17

the same would happen to snowden kangaroo court b.s verdict and heavy sentecnce leftyohiolib May 2014 #24

Manning wasn't locked away "indefinitely". George II May 2014 #50

ok thanks for the correction leftyohiolib May 2014 #51

Time will fly for Chelsea Manning. Hope they are not still making her strip naked. merrily May 2014 #123

I can't imagine being her age, and knowing I have 34 more years to do. truedelphi May 2014 #165

Compare her sentence with that of those twerps caught torturing in Abu Ghraib, especially merrily May 2014 #172

That is a certainty. n/t truedelphi May 2014 #162

"he would have no chance whatsoever to come home and make his case – in public or in court." Leme May 2014 #3

Snowden can then stay in Russia ProSense May 2014 #4

"He broke the law"-you of course are as pure as the driven snow? hobbit709 May 2014 #5

Are you suggesting I "broke the law" and so did you? Ridiculous response. n/t ProSense May 2014 #6

you don't even know the origin of the phrase do you? hobbit709 May 2014 #7

Notice how she left out that Drake was bankrupted and works in an Apple store. n/t NOVA_Dem May 2014 #8

And Drake never released a classified document. zeemike May 2014 #14

He would not be treated like Manning treestar May 2014 #34

He is charged under the espionage act like Manning zeemike May 2014 #48

Once, I never would have thought tjhat Manning would be treated like Manning, either. merrily May 2014 #132

Welcome to DU, where ignoring inconvenient truths is a common occurence. merrily May 2014 #124

wtf - he's not the ... wth leftyohiolib May 2014 #25

Are you seriously arguing that unless someone is "pure as the driven snow" they can not karynnj May 2014 #30

I'm not the one that is voluminously defending the surveillance apparatchik. hobbit709 May 2014 #31

There is something inherently wrong with defending it? treestar May 2014 #37

Ahh, so it is ALL or NOTHING! Got it. nt Pholus May 2014 #95

No, it is not treestar May 2014 #98

For US citizens, I think the NSA has a bit more explaining to do. Pholus May 2014 #169

How absurd. No one is suggesting that we have no surveillance. Some want rhett o rick May 2014 #102

No one is karynnj May 2014 #39

Tehre is breaking the law, and then there is breaking the law. truedelphi May 2014 #89

I don't equate Snowden with any of the people who took huge risks to do righteous things karynnj May 2014 #93

Yes, leaking does lead to making secret govt conduct an issue and yes that is due to actions of the merrily May 2014 #130

The problem is no one voted to give the power to determine whether something should be declassified karynnj May 2014 #156

Snowden's case is a lot more like Ellsberg's. merrily May 2014 #175

The point is that Greenwald now is in a position of enormous power karynnj May 2014 #178

Sigh. merrily May 2014 #179

Your arguments are excellently constructed. truedelphi May 2014 #161

Why, thank you, truedelphi. merrily May 2014 #173

Good post. I never cease to be shocked at the depths that some will sink to defend Snowden Number23 May 2014 #111

Agree. However, I also note the depths to which some will sink to smear him. merrily May 2014 #131

Yes, Snowden broke the law, but the Constitution should make a high US govt official pause long and merrily May 2014 #128

Drake agrees that under the current circumstances, Snowden was correct to seek political asylum sabrina 1 May 2014 #11

This is the best case FOR Snowdens defense I've read yet if its true. All the others have been uponit7771 May 2014 #136

It is odd to say the least, nilesobek May 2014 #148

The difference is that Drake, like Ellsberg himself, was an insider when he decided to go public Leopolds Ghost Jun 2014 #182

K & R Le Taz Hot May 2014 #13

This is yet another possible case for jury nullification. nilesobek May 2014 #22

my guess is that snowden would be clubbed to death with the patriot act leftyohiolib May 2014 #26

Snowden would be extremely lucky to get a fair trial FiveGoodMen May 2014 #27

If, as some polls suggest, around half the country sees him positively, karynnj May 2014 #38

A fantastically good point! QuestForSense May 2014 #116

He won't remain in Russia forever. MohRokTah May 2014 #29

Do you think his value is at its peak now? nilesobek May 2014 #100

I think it peaked when Russia invaded Crimea. MohRokTah May 2014 #101

Federal prosecutors select jurors? treestar May 2014 #33

No you are right nilesobek May 2014 #96

The media has not been universally negative about Snowden karynnj May 2014 #157

In the old guerilla warfare term, nilesobek May 2014 #160

The problem is that Snowden, not Greenwald, has clearly violated the law karynnj May 2014 #163

interesting thought grasswire May 2014 #83

He would get a fair trial treestar May 2014 #32

He would? progressoid May 2014 #59

Ad nauseum. Enthusiast May 2014 #81

+1000. He would get screwed, and muzzled, which is really why they want him. To shut him up. GoneFishin May 2014 #127

Under the Espionage Act he wouldn't. His main defence is that he did arthritisR_US May 2014 #87

The Espionage Act is the law treestar May 2014 #99

Would be nice if that's how it worked but arthritisR_US May 2014 #110

Ellsberg K&R Babel_17 May 2014 #35

If and this only an "if" mind you...........Snowden had limited what he released to only cstanleytech May 2014 #43

The decision to publish that information was made... bvar22 May 2014 #60

Sorry but you cant use the Guardian to hide behind because they couldnt have published it cstanleytech May 2014 #63

That IS what Whistle Blowers do. bvar22 May 2014 #67

Again if the information Snowden provided was only about the NSA cstanleytech May 2014 #71

A broken system gets the whistleblowers it gets Babel_17 May 2014 #97

Well yes he did reveal some parts were broken down however he also revealed stuff that was working cstanleytech May 2014 #104

I know Ellsberg Cryptoad May 2014 #36

You know him, and you'd like him to be imprisoned? DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #40

X 10, bvar22 May 2014 #61

you seem Cryptoad May 2014 #66

Hah,,,, you must have one of those new Cryptoad May 2014 #65

Yep. You "know" Daniel Ellsberg. bvar22 May 2014 #68

The facts of what you said? DisgustipatedinCA May 2014 #84

seems you have yet figured out Cryptoad May 2014 #94

+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast May 2014 #82

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice have been free and unprosecuted for how long now? Shipwack May 2014 #41

ditto the cadre of Snowden bashers here reddread May 2014 #45

I begged them the last two days to go after Cheney... grasswire May 2014 #85

Couldn't have said it better, TY! nt arthritisR_US May 2014 #88

No he would get a fair one imo but there just is no way I can see him not being convicted cstanleytech May 2014 #42

I see the Spin Cycle bus has arrived to run Daniel Ellsberg over marmar May 2014 #46

I hear ya. Where is the "not in my name you don't"!! arthritisR_US May 2014 #90

Ellsberg has been under the bus for months now. merrily May 2014 #126

I see that John Kerry isn't the only tool in this thread.... mike_c May 2014 #47

Even if he had tried to follow all the "rules" he would have gotten screwed like Sibel Edmonds did cascadiance May 2014 #52

inarguably. reddread May 2014 #54

As long as they play the "states secret" canard, a defendant hasn't got a arthritisR_US May 2014 #91

He should have went to Edmonds, she had been running a whistle blower group. Sunlei May 2014 #109

"but Ellsberg gave us a GOP President! without his reveleations we wouldn't have gotten Ford!" MisterP May 2014 #58

Snowden said he made many 'whistle blower contacts' before he stole files and ran with them. Sunlei May 2014 #70

If he didn't keep copies of ALL those emails, given his penchant for arthritisR_US May 2014 #92

proud to be rec. 100 /nt jimlup May 2014 #86

So stay in Russia and keep spouting bullshit because Daniel Ellsberg says so. Problem solved. Cha May 2014 #103

Get Rid Of NSA billhicks76 May 2014 #105

, blkmusclmachine May 2014 #107

k&R woo me with science May 2014 #114

Why are our own party member so hostile towaards Snowden? Harmony Blue May 2014 #115

I think you know the answer. n/t truth2power May 2014 #117

to give a truthful answer to that question would get your post hidden. nt m-lekktor May 2014 #141

Ask yourself, does he love Obama? Autumn May 2014 #153

Ellsberg would quickly change his mind... nikto May 2014 #120

Sure he informed the world about illegal intrusive government behavior but in return he gets to be GoneFishin May 2014 #134

How dare Snowden reveal TRUTH nikto May 2014 #170

Ellsberg has gone from Democratic Party icon to one of many whom New Democrats merrily May 2014 #125

I am disgusted that we now have rightwing democrats GoneFishin May 2014 #129

What about Democrats calling Snowden a traitor on national TV, even as they demand that he merrily May 2014 #135

They are pissed that they can't shut him up. He foiled their usual approach of locking GoneFishin May 2014 #138

I think they could shut him up, if they really wanted. That is the scarier thing. merrily May 2014 #140

You are probably right. And he doesn't control the information anymore. So that does GoneFishin May 2014 #151

Yep. People talk about a plea deal. What's his bargaining chip, when they have every merrily May 2014 #154

DeSwiss: ''Snowden would not get a fair trial – and Kerry is an idiot.'' DeSwiss May 2014 #149

I don't give his intelligence status much thought...but KoKo May 2014 #176

I've felt that way about Kerry since 70s'...... DeSwiss May 2014 #181

Ha... KoKo Jun 2014 #183

OMG, OMG How Dare You! fascisthunter Jun 2014 #186

Ellsberg also says, tblue37 Jun 2014 #187

Yeah, Snowden's lawyer also stupidly compared Snowden to the Underground railroad.. Cha Jun 2014 #188

Even if Kerry maybe made a little gaffe with using this "Man Up " expression mylye2222 Jun 2014 #190