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tea and oranges

(396 posts)
175. My father the iconoclast
Sat Jun 14, 2014, 05:04 PM
Jun 2014

Irv, a Jewish progressive agnostic, liberated a concentration camp as a young army lieutenant. He well understood the effects of unchecked hatred.

When I was 5 he put me on his lap & propped the Margaret Bourke-White book of pictures from the Holocaust on my legs. "These are your people. This is what was done to them." The book dug into my thighs w/ a vengeance, but I said nothing for I knew my pain was nothing compared to what I was seeing.

We moved from Philly to S. Florida when I was 4. I was solemnly told that if I was ever at a friend's house & heard their parents say anything bad about black people I was to come right home, because they hated me too.

We never had milk as a beverage b/c Irv said the milk lobby were liars & milk would kill you. We never had white bread or white rice. Dessert was fruit, usually picked from a back yard tree. Did I raise my son w/o sugar & vegetarian? You bet I did!

I was taught to speak out, that silence was collusion. I grew up shy, but knees knocking I stand up in class, auditorium, wherever, & say what's on my mind: At a storyteller's conference: "I know you bill yourself as a feminist storyteller, please explain to me & the other people here exactly what's feminist about the story you just told" to a male storyteller who told a horrifically sexist tale. "Please get back on topic, I find what you're saying about your dog upsetting" to a psychology professor who told of conditioning his dog to enjoy spankings. Yep, my dad taught me to do that. Sometimes people come up afterwards & thank me; sometimes they hate my guts. Shrug! I'm Irv's daughter.

There was no censorship in my parent's house. When I decided to read the works of Freud at age 13 (what could it possibly have meant to me?) that was cool, I just had to read in the family room.

He died just before Florida was the deciding factor in GWBush's election, which would not have made him happy. Up until his last years he attended elder hostels & other classes. I got used to him calling me wanting to discuss the plays of Ibsen or revisionist views of Eisenhower.

To say Irv was the biggest influence in my life is an understatement. You see, I never really had a chance to be anything other than a progressive, peacenik, atheist, vegetarian, natural foods eating feminist. For that I'm forever grateful.

Everything. elleng Jun 2014 #1
I was a daddy's girl myself malaise Jun 2014 #5
Daddy made pancakes! elleng Jun 2014 #13
I actually know that - Sputnik malaise Jun 2014 #15
YOU GOT IT!!! elleng Jun 2014 #138
The really funny thing is that my sis didn't go to law school until after dad died malaise Jun 2014 #139
'Funny.' elleng Jun 2014 #141
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.' My dad was big with that one steve2470 Jun 2014 #52
and you do follow that, I have noticed. bettyellen Jun 2014 #198
thanks, I do try nt steve2470 Jun 2014 #250
Sit outside and look at the stars JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #2
Dad's oldest sister taught is about the stars malaise Jun 2014 #17
Another one - political in nature JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #79
He clearly didn't buy the exceptional BS malaise Jun 2014 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author meti57b Jun 2014 #3
He said the only thing that matters is the truth BeyondGeography Jun 2014 #4
Profound and important malaise Jun 2014 #18
My dad told me I'd never make money as an artist and should learn how to type abelenkpe Jun 2014 #6
Ha malaise Jun 2014 #20
When I was say 3 years old...he took me to hear President Kennedy speak. FarPoint Jun 2014 #7
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah malaise Jun 2014 #28
My sweet father-in-law used to call me Sis, almost from the first time I met him... Tikki Jun 2014 #8
Honest work is nothing to be ashamed of. JNelson6563 Jun 2014 #9
And that's the truth malaise Jun 2014 #31
Nothing. former9thward Jun 2014 #10
OK then malaise Jun 2014 #22
"neatness counts" --- he was an accountant aikoaiko Jun 2014 #11
Mom was the neat freak malaise Jun 2014 #23
"Religion is the biggest scam on the planet." Arugula Latte Jun 2014 #12
Did we have the same Dad? Kidding, but sufrommich Jun 2014 #19
My Dad hated Catholics tazkcmo Jun 2014 #189
Wise man malaise Jun 2014 #24
Question authority. Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #14
Dad lived that malaise Jun 2014 #26
Yep! Mine, too. He died when I was 18. I'm 56 and I still miss him. Luminous Animal Jun 2014 #124
he didn't want sons, but he wanted self-sufficient daughters fizzgig Jun 2014 #16
He was clearly a progressive malaise Jun 2014 #27
My father was an exceptional man. Arkansas Granny Jun 2014 #21
You had a great dad malaise Jun 2014 #32
It was more what he didn't say that counted LadyHawkAZ Jun 2014 #25
Bet that gave you lots of self esteem malaise Jun 2014 #33
It's probably the reason I'm still standing n/t LadyHawkAZ Jun 2014 #40
seriously? lol. wonderful question. i still tell my father at 74... thank you. for being the seabeyond Jun 2014 #29
Lovely malaise Jun 2014 #35
i did. i do. i wish it on every child, knowing that will not be the case. nt seabeyond Jun 2014 #54
Tried to choke my mom to death with his bare hands NickB79 Jun 2014 #30
Freaking wow!!! malaise Jun 2014 #38
similar feeling--mine tried to choke me to death with his bare hands zazen Jun 2014 #73
It's true - some of us had great dads but we know that malaise Jun 2014 #82
. randome Jun 2014 #83
with the question asked, seabeyond Jun 2014 #216
Nothing that I remember. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2014 #34
Ouch! malaise Jun 2014 #39
I wish Turbineguy Jun 2014 #36
Smart uncle malaise Jun 2014 #43
No slouch, he... Turbineguy Jun 2014 #104
. Lurker Deluxe Jun 2014 #37
Profound malaise Jun 2014 #45
He said so many things that have influenced me, that it's hard to MineralMan Jun 2014 #41
Sounds like a great man malaise Jun 2014 #49
Yes, he is. He's 89 years old now, and MineralMan Jun 2014 #57
They sure grew up faster than we did malaise Jun 2014 #60
I will do that. And, yes, they grew up fast. MineralMan Jun 2014 #62
Here's one I forgot, and it's one of the most important: MineralMan Jun 2014 #63
Funny malaise Jun 2014 #65
It's probably the core of all wisdom, really. MineralMan Jun 2014 #67
I agree 100% malaise Jun 2014 #71
I know you do. I've seen you laughing at yourself. MineralMan Jun 2014 #72
If you can't laugh at yourself malaise Jun 2014 #76
Do something with it.................. wandy Jun 2014 #42
I like his world view malaise Jun 2014 #51
Doing nothing is a conscious choice.......... wandy Jun 2014 #70
I had to make a hard decision re a friend's mother recently malaise Jun 2014 #74
For the times that no action is the only option............ wandy Jun 2014 #116
He said I will never have a house as nice as his itsrobert Jun 2014 #44
And you proved him wrong malaise Jun 2014 #53
He said, "Life isn't fair." theaocp Jun 2014 #46
That's one of the great truths of life malaise Jun 2014 #55
Everything steve2470 Jun 2014 #47
You had one nice dad malaise Jun 2014 #58
He drank himself to death. I haven't. nt valerief Jun 2014 #48
Lesson well taught malaise Jun 2014 #59
Despite good intentions, truebluegreen Jun 2014 #50
We learn lessons from them regardless malaise Jun 2014 #61
Yes. Especially in that generation... truebluegreen Jun 2014 #75
Yes that generation had it hard and their main priority was to put that food on the table malaise Jun 2014 #78
He gave me a strong aversion to all debt except the house mortgage Warpy Jun 2014 #56
I never heard dad talk about money malaise Jun 2014 #64
Both my parents played the stock market Warpy Jun 2014 #81
You're cracking me up here malaise Jun 2014 #84
"Jealousy, hate and worry, will kill ya. Leave 'em alone." MerryBlooms Jun 2014 #66
Excellent advice malaise Jun 2014 #68
Dad always encouraged me to read shenmue Jun 2014 #69
Dad had his own library downstairs malaise Jun 2014 #86
Much. My Dad would have been the best DUer ever. Bluenorthwest Jun 2014 #77
What a great post - your dad was a great man malaise Jun 2014 #87
He left when I was 12. randome Jun 2014 #80
But did anything he said or did influence malaise Jun 2014 #91
One thing he said that is noteworthy but I'm saving that. randome Jun 2014 #100
No it's not narcissistic at all malaise Jun 2014 #103
No dad. Grandpa was my buddy. He had a firm sense of who "we" were. "We're Yellow Dog Democrats, txwhitedove Jun 2014 #85
Sounds like a wise old man malaise Jun 2014 #88
"Don't ever be afraid to think." frogmarch Jun 2014 #89
It's amazing how many of us have these profound one liners which guided us malaise Jun 2014 #95
Like others here are saying about their exceptional dads, truedelphi Jun 2014 #90
You had a wise warm loving friend for a dad malaise Jun 2014 #98
he whistled, and drew cartoons Voice for Peace Jun 2014 #92
I wouldn't forget that either malaise Jun 2014 #99
My dad descended from German Freethinkers............ Capt.Rocky300 Jun 2014 #93
Bet you still love being a part of nature? malaise Jun 2014 #102
Absolutely. Being "out there" is a huge part of who I am Capt.Rocky300 Jun 2014 #121
Nothing. Chan790 Jun 2014 #94
sobriety is the textbook definition of "necessary but insufficient". . . zazen Jun 2014 #101
You had it hard malaise Jun 2014 #106
He taught me the dignity of work, and the virtue of moderation, and to depend on myself. nt bemildred Jun 2014 #96
I'm betting that was by word and action malaise Jun 2014 #107
By example. We never talked much, too big an age difference. bemildred Jun 2014 #109
Was too critical treestar Jun 2014 #97
Yes too much criticism damages self esteem malaise Jun 2014 #108
Know that one well my self. DeadLetterOffice Jun 2014 #202
... Whisp Jun 2014 #245
"Reagan you were a two bit actor and now a worse President!". DCBob Jun 2014 #105
LOL - he was 100% correct malaise Jun 2014 #110
Yes indeed. DCBob Jun 2014 #113
If you can't do a good job stand aside and let someone else do a good job! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2014 #111
lied to a judge he knew about my grandparents health post custody/divorce reddread Jun 2014 #114
Ouch! malaise Jun 2014 #117
For all our dads - living and dead malaise Jun 2014 #115
Yes. Buy a tuxedo and find a reason to wear it once a month. beaglelover Jun 2014 #118
Smart man malaise Jun 2014 #119
He said I could do or be anything marlakay Jun 2014 #120
I can call up my parents' voices at will malaise Jun 2014 #127
. snagglepuss Jun 2014 #122
Its what he didn't say that influenced me. bahrbearian Jun 2014 #123
So true malaise Jun 2014 #130
He kicked a major smoking habit cold turkey. ananda Jun 2014 #125
Bet he got the required strength from her malaise Jun 2014 #131
My dad and step-dad chowder66 Jun 2014 #126
Lucky you - good caring parents malaise Jun 2014 #129
Thanks. They are all very smart and wise people. chowder66 Jun 2014 #132
This is a really beautiful thread. nt chowder66 Jun 2014 #128
my dad beat me. onethatcares Jun 2014 #133
But he did teach you not to treat your kids like punching bags malaise Jun 2014 #136
To be responsible for your family dem in texas Jun 2014 #134
family. frank and bob. i am so glad you had those two men step in. seabeyond Jun 2014 #140
He sure taught you rough lessons malaise Jun 2014 #142
My father reminded me of Jack Torrance in THE SHINING. raccoon Jun 2014 #135
True but I'm betting your kids share our planet malaise Jun 2014 #143
Thanks, but only kid I have a a 16-year-old feline. raccoon Jun 2014 #273
Despite the fact he was from the south, he was very egalitarian with people of every race aint_no_life_nowhere Jun 2014 #137
It explains you -great dad - even greater man malaise Jun 2014 #145
I am trying hard to think of something. 3catwoman3 Jun 2014 #144
"Don't make excuses. Do the best you can with what you've got". <Best lesson. jtuck004 Jun 2014 #146
If that was easy, what was hard malaise Jun 2014 #149
Watching my mom die from cancer starting when I was 6 and ending when I was 9, and jtuck004 Jun 2014 #159
It made me tougher and less likely to tolerate stupid malaise Jun 2014 #178
Too short-tempered, but I try to work on that. Sometimes. <G>. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2014 #255
Look it up in the dictionary. seaglass Jun 2014 #147
The recent 20 game Jeopardy winner, Julie Collins malaise Jun 2014 #150
I don't think he ever recovered from WWII. joanbarnes Jun 2014 #148
That's not the worst lesson malaise Jun 2014 #152
Union President Iris Jun 2014 #151
Explain please n/t malaise Jun 2014 #217
shop chairman, a position in UAW, self-described socialist democrat Iris Jun 2014 #299
Yep that would teach you about real democracy and the 'little guy' malaise Jun 2014 #300
He was friendly with people from all races & never bragged about it. lovemydog Jun 2014 #153
You're clearly one of the lucky ones malaise Jun 2014 #154
We have vice laws so that we will always be vulnerable to arrest and this will make us McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #155
I see it in all your posts malaise Jun 2014 #157
Help those who are less fortunate than you. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #156
You live it malaise Jun 2014 #162
My dad was a Methodist minister, and he lived it. JDPriestly Jun 2014 #174
"You'll never amount to anything, you sissy... AlbertCat Jun 2014 #158
Bet you're a good artist? malaise Jun 2014 #161
Two things come to mind, in this order: Aldo Leopold Jun 2014 #160
Sound advice malaise Jun 2014 #163
stay out of debt if you can... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Jun 2014 #164
Sound advice malaise Jun 2014 #166
for those who can ProdigalJunkMail Jun 2014 #167
"Late to bed, early to rise, work like hell, and advertise!" calimary Jun 2014 #165
And sometimes you learn beneficial things from both kinds of lessons malaise Jun 2014 #168
Thanks, malaise! Love you! calimary Jun 2014 #173
My Dad told me to... proReality Jun 2014 #169
He used to beat the shit out of me and my brothers. MohRokTah Jun 2014 #170
I don't remember things my father said FlaGranny Jun 2014 #171
HE sure taught you lots of great stuff - wonderful dad malaise Jun 2014 #179
Two things stick out. ladyVet Jun 2014 #172
Great lessons malaise Jun 2014 #180
My father the iconoclast tea and oranges Jun 2014 #175
You had a great dad malaise Jun 2014 #183
He was a great influence tea and oranges Jun 2014 #252
My dad was a cop and I've never forgotten this advice: catbyte Jun 2014 #176
Seriously too many people don't know how to scream when facing danger malaise Jun 2014 #184
You said it! He said you can get over embarrassment, death, not so much. catbyte Jun 2014 #193
nothing to emulate Duppers Jun 2014 #177
Awful but your malaise Jun 2014 #186
My Dad told me to get SevenSixtyTwo Jun 2014 #181
Most folks would kill for a good mechanic malaise Jun 2014 #188
Honest tazkcmo Jun 2014 #182
OK then malaise Jun 2014 #190
my dad was non-judgemental and kind....big heart. he taught me love and happiness.... spanone Jun 2014 #185
hope my kids like/love me as much- They will malaise Jun 2014 #194
malaise.... spanone Jun 2014 #197
Quietly lives a green life drmeow Jun 2014 #187
Wonderful malaise Jun 2014 #196
He was registered as a drmeow Jun 2014 #218
He understood the true meaning of conservative malaise Jun 2014 #223
He did! eom drmeow Jun 2014 #236
Left my mother and me when I was 12, as we thought he was going to work. Came home 2 weeks later. I WinkyDink Jun 2014 #191
Complicated - that's it malaise Jun 2014 #199
Thank you very much for your reply. WinkyDink Jun 2014 #208
Lots of shit for me NOT to pass on to my sons. DeadLetterOffice Jun 2014 #192
Well at least you can laugh at some of the lessons malaise Jun 2014 #201
Laughing is my solution to most of life. DeadLetterOffice Jun 2014 #210
I know lots of folks who are just like you malaise Jun 2014 #211
He LWolf Jun 2014 #195
I'm on your side here malaise Jun 2014 #204
I thank my mom daily LWolf Jun 2014 #246
Be financially self sufficient Aerows Jun 2014 #200
You have a great dad malaise Jun 2014 #205
I will :) Aerows Jun 2014 #212
Daddy use to say that we were stage left Jun 2014 #203
That's how we build self esteem and a sense of self malaise Jun 2014 #206
"You can take the boy/girl out of NYC, HockeyMom Jun 2014 #207
Question malaise Jun 2014 #213
Born, raised, HockeyMom Jun 2014 #274
Well, he's kind of a wing-nut, so I basically chose to do the opposite and it has served me well. alarimer Jun 2014 #209
He was violent herding cats Jun 2014 #214
He taught me that violence is not the answer malaise Jun 2014 #228
ALWAYS LEAVE A NOTE! nt Logical Jun 2014 #215
He didn't Prophet 451 Jun 2014 #219
He told me I wasn't a good writer. I write. cali Jun 2014 #220
Did he write? malaise Jun 2014 #226
No. He didn't write cali Jun 2014 #254
That must have been crushing at that age malaise Jun 2014 #257
My biological dad's positive contributions ended mythology Jun 2014 #221
I think you learned all the important lessons malaise Jun 2014 #224
My Father taught us to respect everyone from a human viewpoint, and to be healthy, active and eat Todays_Illusion Jun 2014 #222
Nice lessons malaise Jun 2014 #229
My Dad Smoked Liberal_Dog Jun 2014 #225
Both my parents smoked until Dad couldn't get his brand malaise Jun 2014 #227
My dad was amazing. He grew up during the depression, born to an alcoholic dad and PATXgirl Jun 2014 #230
You had a great dad malaise Jun 2014 #233
He told me it was my fault my mom drank. Adsos Letter Jun 2014 #231
Your dad had no understanding of alcoholism malaise Jun 2014 #234
It's true, he didn't. n/t Adsos Letter Jun 2014 #238
He Said... WiffenPoof Jun 2014 #232
Isn't that the truth malaise Jun 2014 #256
As a small child he took me to a bank and help me open a checking and savings account and Drew Richards Jun 2014 #235
Nice dad malaise Jun 2014 #295
My dad read to me and told stories. I learned to read at the age of four and since Louisiana1976 Jun 2014 #237
Good dad malaise Jun 2014 #288
My Dad used to rub his hands together and look at the 3 of us with a gleem in his eyes and say MuseRider Jun 2014 #239
That was rough but you learned the value of love malaise Jun 2014 #286
I learned how to read instructions & double-check driving directions. xfundy Jun 2014 #240
Bwaaaaaaaaaah malaise Jun 2014 #287
Hmmm. Well, in addition to leaving me something of a mixed bag, genetically Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #241
I love this malaise Jun 2014 #258
Thanks. It's sad, he died way too young. Warren DeMontague Jun 2014 #267
This malaise Jun 2014 #269
My Dad once put some dimes KT2000 Jun 2014 #242
What a lesson in honesty malaise Jun 2014 #259
More things than I could ever list. 99Forever Jun 2014 #243
The best and most decent man I've ever known malaise Jun 2014 #260
Thanks to him, I have a top-notch BS detector, can ID an MRA in 5 sentences, and am a feminist. politicat Jun 2014 #244
You clearly learned good lessons from a bad person malaise Jun 2014 #261
I say you are blessed indeed to have in youself, a way to have a different adult life for yourself. Todays_Illusion Jun 2014 #298
He hated liars Generic Other Jun 2014 #247
Yep malaise Jun 2014 #262
Three things, mainly... pipi_k Jun 2014 #248
Nice post malaise Jun 2014 #263
The one thing that really matters Glitterati Jun 2014 #249
Yes I know so many people malaise Jun 2014 #264
One thing comes to mind shanti Jun 2014 #251
Important lesson there malaise Jun 2014 #265
Dad.... defacto7 Jun 2014 #253
LOL malaise Jun 2014 #266
Don't even consider borrowing what you can't repay dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #268
Wise words malaise Jun 2014 #270
off topic dipsydoodle Jun 2014 #271
For more than football reasons as well malaise Jun 2014 #272
That's not football, that's soccer. randome Jun 2014 #275
All you need to know is ctsnowman Jun 2014 #276
My Dad is a Right Wing Shankapotomus Jun 2014 #277
Well patience is a supreme virtue malaise Jun 2014 #281
Abandoned his family because Demobrat Jun 2014 #278
Damn malaise Jun 2014 #282
"Straighten up and fly right!"--he was in the Air Force panader0 Jun 2014 #279
Dad played this often malaise Jun 2014 #283
he also used to say "Why are your eyes so red?" panader0 Jun 2014 #285
I guess you were meditating a lot malaise Jun 2014 #289
He taught me to read from the newspapers and loved to talk about current events and history at a bettyellen Jun 2014 #280
Nice dad malaise Jun 2014 #284
He told me that people had to earn trust and respect and to start with the notion that all people Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #290
all people are full of shit until they prove otherwise malaise Jun 2014 #291
It has served me well and when I didn't abide by that notion, I got burned. Darkhawk32 Jun 2014 #297
"Never underestimate the power of the human mind to rationalize." mahina Jun 2014 #292
Wise words malaise Jun 2014 #293
My dad killed himself before I was 1 year old after being a drug addict who abused my older brothers Shoulders of Giants Jun 2014 #294
Well that was a profound influence malaise Jun 2014 #296
Do as I say, and not as I do . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2014 #301
"Can't never did do nothing" Uben Jun 2014 #302
My Dad DUgosh Jun 2014 #303
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