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In reply to the discussion: We failed her. Big time. Boston Children’s was experimenting on Justina Pelletier, [View all]kcr
(15,320 posts)394. It's unsupported that RW sources can't be trusted?
And there we are, the agenda. Children have rights of their own separate from their parents and aren't outweigh by the rights of the parents. It isn't to punish parents, it's to protect the rights of children themselves. They aren't possessions. If there is significant evidence of harm, abuse, or neglect, intervention is warranted.
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We failed her. Big time. Boston Children’s was experimenting on Justina Pelletier, [View all]
pnwmom
Jul 2014
OP
She wasn't kidnapped to beging with and I doubt highly that she was tortured or expiremented on
kcr
Jul 2014
#54
It's just a matter of diction in circumstances like this. But you were the person
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#79
To the family, that's exactly how it felt. They brought their sick child to see a G.I. doc
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#98
As opposed to all the other families who've lost custody, who admit their wrongdoing
kcr
Jul 2014
#102
The critical difference here is that the state's only claim against them is that they were
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#109
The state shouldn't grab custody for 16 months because of something that could "possibly be true."
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#114
Because I believe the Tufts doctor, and that was his sworn testimony at a hearing.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#149
That's assuming the claim about it being about a disagreement over a diagnosis is correct.
kcr
Jul 2014
#309
Taking a child away from her parents is supposed to require some evidence to back it up.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#436
Parents who've had their children removed aren't allowed to see their children whenever they want
kcr
Jul 2014
#302
What psychiatrist said he didn't believe in it? BCH has specialists in mitochondial disease.
kcr
Jul 2014
#311
What you are saying might have made some sense before but everything is completely
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#326
If BC admitted they were wrong, it should be easy for you to show where that happened.
kcr
Jul 2014
#331
They recommended she be returned to her old doctors and her family. That is fact. nt
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#334
I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims.
kcr
Jul 2014
#358
"I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims."
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#360
My assertion isn't that it's not accurate. My assertion is the source is questionable.
kcr
Jul 2014
#373
What you're being required to defend is your unsupported, evidence-free allegations.
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#392
There was NO significant evidence of harm, abuse, or neglect. None. Zero. Zilch.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#438
The fact is that the state finally returned her to the care of her Tufts doctors,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#6
Appreciate McDermott, the OP and analysis more than you'll ever know. You have my heartfelt thanks.
freshwest
Jul 2014
#276
It stinks to high heaven that right wing sites are the only place for "news" on this.
alarimer
Jul 2014
#235
A combination of withdrawing her medications -- which is a treatment in itself --
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#9
If the misdiagnosis was not done intentionally, treating for a misdiagnosed condition is not....
moriah
Jul 2014
#13
Psychological experiments might not sound as gruesome but they're still experiments.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#21
It is. Imagine that you are very sick, painfully sick, with intense abdominal pain,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#268
Behavioral modification shouldn't be a legitimate treatment for somatic disorder.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#288
Is "somatic disorder" a real disease? I had the impression that the Harvard doctors came up
hedgehog
Jul 2014
#259
When she got the flu -- the cause of her going to the ER -- she was severely weakened
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#12
"These are facts, according to the Boston Globe -- not a conservative rag." Great, then why bring
FSogol
Jul 2014
#32
Because they're the ones reporting the cray cray that some feel back their position
kcr
Jul 2014
#63
Again. Not including that one doctor isn't evidence they didn't consult anyone else about her care.
kcr
Jul 2014
#207
Yes, the Harvard M.D.eities "didn't wish to consult with that doctor." That says it all. n/t
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#222
They absolutely didn't do that before making their decision -- which was done within 12 hours
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#232
What's tinfoil is suggesting that the hospital being "consultants" is evidence of collusion.
kcr
Jul 2014
#306
It is evidence of conflict of interest. They weren't in the position to give a neutral opinion.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#313
They didn't have an imagined conflict of interest. They had a genuine conflict of interest.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#325
Sorry, but a source that you don't recall is worthless. I'm very familiar with the Globe
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#361
You got me, I'm totally making it up! Meanwhile, someone who sources the Daily Fail
kcr
Jul 2014
#363
The only red flag is waving at the MSM's negligence in covering the story fully.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#379
No one should be subjected to it? I disagree. Children would die if DCF were dismantled.
kcr
Jul 2014
#389
She had the right not to be ripped from her family and locked in a psychiatric ward
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#395
The judge and the hospital had a longstanding, working relationship that led the judge
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#402
Does the working relationship involve cackling with glee from their elite ivory tower
kcr
Jul 2014
#404
I don't have the kind of vivid imagination you obviously do, so the answer is no.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#414
The judge returned Justina to continue to be "overmedicalized" by Tufts and her parents
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#407
Oh, so he didn't rubber stamp it then. Or did he rubber stamp it, then un-rubber stamp it?
kcr
Jul 2014
#409
It seems to me a rubber stamping careless judge wouldn't take the time to be flexible.
kcr
Jul 2014
#413
That better not be a typical pattern -- more than a year on a locked psychiatric ward
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#418
When there's no immediate risk of serious harm, which there wasn't, any judgment
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#423
It is a fact that it is legal in the state of Massachusetts to enroll wards of the state
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#64
How is that possible? The Harvard psychiatrists aren't the ones running and squawking to the media.
kcr
Jul 2014
#97
They believed the Harvard psychiatrists' diagnosis that she had a somatic disorder.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#101
You have no way of knowing. Correct. So don't you think that when there's a reasonable doubt,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#107
Yes -- the parents were rude to the social workers. And so the social workers, apparently,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#117
Publish or perish affects health professionals, too. So yeah, I can believe Boston Childrens
McCamy Taylor
Jul 2014
#29
I suspect their lawyers and insurance companies are already urging a quick settlement. n/t
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#141
I'm not accusing liberals of hurting her. I'm asking why the MSM and the "liberal media"
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#270
I wish we could champion the cause of every child who isn't getting proper care...
DesertDiamond
Jul 2014
#35
This wasn't just a case of improper care. This was a case of the state vs. the parents.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#39
You do? I've heard plenty of interviews that were manipulative and selective.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2014
#48
Yes, exactly. The Boston Globe got the ball rolling, but most of the media quickly
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#50
Mass DCF is the most incompent and corrupt governement organization you can imagine
hack89
Jul 2014
#45
Oh, some agencies. Funny how it's always the ones featured in RW anti-government screeds.
kcr
Jul 2014
#69
They are still woefully incompent regardless of the reasons - they are killing kids
hack89
Jul 2014
#84
Parents reacting strongly to losing their children. Because that normally doesn't happen?
kcr
Jul 2014
#333
No, you're only believing the spin that returning her to her parents is evidence they were wrong.
kcr
Jul 2014
#337
If only there was some way to break the RW's ironclad reign in Massachusetts. n/t
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#340
I was responding to your sub-thread that DCF in Massachusetts was under-funded.
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#349
"But go ahead and point out where DCF is actually adequately funded, by all means."
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#365
This sub-thread is about your allegation of cuts to the DCF budget, not the video.
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#405
You'd think if they were so short of funds they wouldn't be wasting their money
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#425
Excellent post. K&R. I hope when Justina and her family sue they win a huge award.
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#66
She got better?? She's now paralyzed from the waist down. No feeling below the waist
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#96
She didn't get better physically. She's happier because they finally let her go.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#104
Good for the author's mea culpa but most here at DU were on the right side of this. n/t
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#71
I would hate think you're right about the resistance you've encountered but nowadays
Nuclear Unicorn
Jul 2014
#85
Thanks, Nuclear Unicorn. You can see the range of reactions just to this OP alone.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#87
I haven't noticed anyone siding with Hobby Lobby, but I'll take your word for it. n/t
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#92
Right, because we totally believe anti-government whackos when it's concerning a red state.
kcr
Jul 2014
#86
Rep. McDermott isn't an anti-government whacko, and neither is the Boston Globe,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#90
Based on what? Your unsupported belief that nothing in certain sources ever contains
merrily
Jul 2014
#113
No, I don't. I've repeatedly said I don't know if they're guilty or not or if the hospital
kcr
Jul 2014
#194
Not true. The hospital reported their suspicion, DCF acted on it and a judge ruled in their favor.
kcr
Jul 2014
#206
There was no compelling evidence. The DCF usually has BC investigate its cases --
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#212
What support do you have for the claim there was no compelling evidence? Aside from the parents?
kcr
Jul 2014
#216
When you advocate take away someone's freedom, it's YOUR job to provide the compelling evidence.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#226
No. But "possible" isn't the standard when you advocate taking custody from parents,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#244
It is easily verified. And it wasn't done because she has mitochondrial disease per se.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#440
Use your eyeballs. She was skating a few weeks before. She's in a wheelchair now.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#163
There are plenty of pictures of her in the hospital and in court in a wheelchair.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#170
I'm sure they'd rather not drag her in there frogmarching her and forcing her to walk.
kcr
Jul 2014
#177
So she's faking it. And after more than a year, the Harvard docs couldn't figure that out. Right.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#187
Then why would they agree to let her go back to her parents and the docs at Tufts
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#204
Children returning to their parents doesn't mean it was determined there was no case.
kcr
Jul 2014
#213
They had an extremely sick daughter -- you can die from vomiting, by the way --
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#241
Maybe, but I would find it hard to believe that the mito doctors weren't consulted
kcr
Jul 2014
#248
They finally were, months later. And eventually, after a year, the judge gave her care
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#249
The specialists are right there, in that hospital, but weren't consulted for months?
kcr
Jul 2014
#251
It's not hard to believe at all, given the document that they wanted the Pelletiers to sign.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#428
Trust me: When social workers want your rights taken away, they can get them taken away.
WinkyDink
Jul 2014
#83
If you have a sick child with an undiagnosed disease, of course you're going to "doctor-shop".
hedgehog
Jul 2014
#261
Very interesting and vitally important. I am looking forward to reading more, thank you. n/t
Jefferson23
Jul 2014
#142
I imagine it's difficult to walk across the room with blinders like that on.
Savannahmann
Jul 2014
#342
I'm just going to stand over here by you. Righteous rant. Thanks for this nt
riderinthestorm
Jul 2014
#387
"But claiming the parents are unfit for following medical advice is the question here"
kcr
Jul 2014
#399
That is all they were ever accused of doing and you know it. The documents are out there now
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#432
In this case a child needed protection from the psychiatrists at BC and the state of MA.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#430
The parents were carefully following the advice of top metabolic and GI specialists,
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#429
No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't let the Harvard name deprive us of all common sense.
pnwmom
Jul 2014
#433
FWIW, I'm also disgusted by some of the posts in response to the OP
friendly_iconoclast
Jul 2014
#296
Here's a link I recently came across listing experts on the frontier of this emerging new science.
proverbialwisdom
Jul 2014
#298
Harvard has people on both sides of this, as shown, so your Harvard-bashing is too indiscriminate.
proverbialwisdom
Jul 2014
#300
It's a hideous part of history: American kids used for government experiments.
Octafish
Jul 2014
#352