Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Clintonians Join Vulture Flock Over Argentina [View all]think
(11,641 posts)82. Some history for perspective perhaps?:
US involvement with the Junta
Despite the fact that at least six US citizens had been "disappeared" by the Argentine military by 1976 and the fact that the US embassy in Buenos Aires had been pushing Argentina's government to respect human rights, high ranking state department officials including then Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger had secretly given their approval to Argentina's new military rulers.[178]
7 August 1979 US embassy in Argentina memorandum of the conversation with "Jorge Contreras", director of Task Force 7 of the "Reunion Central" section of the 601 Army Intelligence Unit, which gathered members from all parts of the Argentine Armed Forces. Subject: "Nuts and Bolts of the Government's Repression of Terrorism-Subversion." Original document on the National Security Archives' website.
State Department documents obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and high-ranking US officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish their actions before the US Congress cut military aid.[178]
On 5 October 1976 Henry Kissinger met with Argentina's Foreign Minister and stated:
Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... The human rights problem is a growing one. Your Ambassador can apprise you. We want a stable situation. We won't cause you unnecessary difficulties. If you can finish before Congress gets back, the better. Whatever freedoms you could restore would help.[178]....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#US_involvement_with_the_Junta
Despite the fact that at least six US citizens had been "disappeared" by the Argentine military by 1976 and the fact that the US embassy in Buenos Aires had been pushing Argentina's government to respect human rights, high ranking state department officials including then Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger had secretly given their approval to Argentina's new military rulers.[178]
7 August 1979 US embassy in Argentina memorandum of the conversation with "Jorge Contreras", director of Task Force 7 of the "Reunion Central" section of the 601 Army Intelligence Unit, which gathered members from all parts of the Argentine Armed Forces. Subject: "Nuts and Bolts of the Government's Repression of Terrorism-Subversion." Original document on the National Security Archives' website.
State Department documents obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and high-ranking US officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish their actions before the US Congress cut military aid.[178]
On 5 October 1976 Henry Kissinger met with Argentina's Foreign Minister and stated:
Look, our basic attitude is that we would like you to succeed. I have an old-fashioned view that friends ought to be supported. What is not understood in the United States is that you have a civil war. We read about human rights problems but not the context. The quicker you succeed the better... The human rights problem is a growing one. Your Ambassador can apprise you. We want a stable situation. We won't cause you unnecessary difficulties. If you can finish before Congress gets back, the better. Whatever freedoms you could restore would help.[178]....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#US_involvement_with_the_Junta
The source:
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB104/index.htm
KISSINGER TO ARGENTINES ON DIRTY WAR:
"THE QUICKER YOU SUCCEED THE BETTER"
Washington, D.C., 4 December 2003 - Newly declassified State Department documents obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and high ranking U.S. officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish the "dirty war" before the U.S. Congress cut military aid. A post-junta truth commission found that the Argentine military had "disappeared" at least 10,000 Argentines in the so-called "dirty war" against "subversion" and "terrorists" between 1976 and 1983; human rights groups in Argentina put the number at closer to 30,000.
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB104/index.htm
"THE QUICKER YOU SUCCEED THE BETTER"
Washington, D.C., 4 December 2003 - Newly declassified State Department documents obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and high ranking U.S. officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish the "dirty war" before the U.S. Congress cut military aid. A post-junta truth commission found that the Argentine military had "disappeared" at least 10,000 Argentines in the so-called "dirty war" against "subversion" and "terrorists" between 1976 and 1983; human rights groups in Argentina put the number at closer to 30,000.
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB104/index.htm
Book launch: "Outstanding Debts to Settle:The Economic Accomplices of the Dictatorship in Argentina"
Horacio Verbitsky and Juan Pablo Bohoslavsky bring together contributions, from more than twenty specialists, in this book that aims to reveal complicity that existed between economic and other private actors and the dictatorship in Argentina.
The cases of business collaboration that are discussed range from the role of private companies, to the financing role of banks and the mass media. The book also discusses economic illegal appropriation of business, the role of lawyers, business organizations, economic think tanks, the Catholic hierarchy, and scholars. Theoretical questions on the economy of authoritarian governments, rational choice, transitional justice and accountability of non-state actors for their involvement are also addressed.
The book accomplishes the task of gathering substantive information on civil and economic complicity that was previously scattered. In achieving it, the book contributes to the promotion of truth, justice, reparation and guarantees of non-recurrence...
~Snip~
http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/library.nsf/(httpLibraryTalksByYear_en)/9F42A66750B90238C1257CAC0049FAFD?OpenDocument&year=2014&navunid=A3609D61BE9ADE32C125792500519C47
Alternate link as the top link does not work unless copied and pasted:
http://goo.gl/kngbPz
Horacio Verbitsky and Juan Pablo Bohoslavsky bring together contributions, from more than twenty specialists, in this book that aims to reveal complicity that existed between economic and other private actors and the dictatorship in Argentina.
The cases of business collaboration that are discussed range from the role of private companies, to the financing role of banks and the mass media. The book also discusses economic illegal appropriation of business, the role of lawyers, business organizations, economic think tanks, the Catholic hierarchy, and scholars. Theoretical questions on the economy of authoritarian governments, rational choice, transitional justice and accountability of non-state actors for their involvement are also addressed.
The book accomplishes the task of gathering substantive information on civil and economic complicity that was previously scattered. In achieving it, the book contributes to the promotion of truth, justice, reparation and guarantees of non-recurrence...
~Snip~
http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/library.nsf/(httpLibraryTalksByYear_en)/9F42A66750B90238C1257CAC0049FAFD?OpenDocument&year=2014&navunid=A3609D61BE9ADE32C125792500519C47
Alternate link as the top link does not work unless copied and pasted:
http://goo.gl/kngbPz
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
241 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
They are being called vultures because they ARE vultures. Try reading a little about
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#5
Clearly you know nothing about what happened in Argentina, which I suspected from your comments.
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#14
Corruption is a crime under the law also. But if you want to pick and choose your laws in favor
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#33
See our bailouts for the corrupt banks, watch 'The Men Who Collapsed the World' among other
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#43
Whoops http://www.lusakatimes.com/2010/04/09/britian-deals-legal-blow-vulture-funds/ nt
griloco
Jul 2014
#145
Whoops http://www.funds-europe.com/news/11474-isle-of-man-outlaws-vulture-funds nt
griloco
Jul 2014
#148
I'm surprised. I thought ve both vept for vultures. maybe if u sleep on it & come back fresh anon nt
griloco
Jul 2014
#160
in case you mist it http://www.lusakatimes.com/2010/04/09/britian-deals-legal-blow-vulture-funds/
griloco
Jul 2014
#146
So I am betting you admire Mittens the Romney. He robs, rapes and pillages, and it's all
rhett o rick
Jul 2014
#111
I am familiar with that saying. (Big deal.) This is a message board, not a court, though.
merrily
Aug 2014
#219
You more than implied it. You posted that the people who lent the money were asking for it
merrily
Aug 2014
#180
Nope. Not irrelevant at all. They knew the risk and priced their purchase accordingly.
merrily
Aug 2014
#179
Part of the nature of loans and borrowing is also that if you don't pay back the money you borrow,
Common Sense Party
Aug 2014
#188
But, that has not been a prominent issue in the debate on this thread so far. Whether fairness and
merrily
Aug 2014
#190
I tend to assume that a reply to a post of mine has something to do with my post.
merrily
Aug 2014
#192
By your own cleaar description, the people who loaned Argentina money are no longer
merrily
Aug 2014
#178
Read Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine" which is a lesson in disaster capital and tells you exactly
jwirr
Jul 2014
#26
Yes, that should be required reading for anyone who cares about the current system of predatory
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#34
Argentina did not 'take on debt' in the first place. Their corrupt Government did that.
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#163
Sabrina 1, I cannot recall reading a post of yours that was not on the money, IMO.
merrily
Aug 2014
#177
Exactly, and the proof is in the results, the EU 'austerity' nations are a total
sabrina 1
Aug 2014
#232
And oddly enough, people seem to think that China has the right to "call debt"
Dreamer Tatum
Jul 2014
#87
I really, seriously don't get why people think every country on earth is entitled to free money
Dreamer Tatum
Jul 2014
#107
You have it exactly right. Certain countries, aided by certain ignorant people,
Dreamer Tatum
Jul 2014
#70
I have some names to give him, the actual culprits he 'trusted' to lend money to. It certainly
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#25
Maybe the same place you get the concept that justice reguires Singer to win big on a risky
merrily
Aug 2014
#183
I bought a house. ABC Mortgage Lender loaned me the money. Two months later, they sold my
Common Sense Party
Aug 2014
#189
He is an expert on the legal aspects of birtherism...He turned me on to The Fogbow.
msanthrope
Jul 2014
#133
Lol, poor, poor vultures, they are people too. Sorry, you won't see many people crying for that
sabrina 1
Jul 2014
#15
I think that the Argentina government was installed by the lenders not the people - or at least
jwirr
Jul 2014
#39
If you want to put it that way but you are on the side of the crooks. Read the book I suggested
jwirr
Jul 2014
#45
Why, oh why, does Henry Kissinger merit such respect when not only did he support the
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#95
Nice try. Who gave the dictator military aid after the coup? China? Seriously.....
think
Jul 2014
#135
You're doing a great job on this and I agree with everything you've posted.
badtoworse
Jul 2014
#137
Nothing like thinking you're making a point by pretending you know how people you've never met
merrily
Aug 2014
#182
Some things on DU are predictable. Blaming the banks for everything is one of them
badtoworse
Aug 2014
#212
It's an extreme reach to the point of being dishonest. A desperate try to attack the Clintons
stevenleser
Jul 2014
#44
It is no surprise that the Clintons are about The Vultures - just look at Hillary's actions
truedelphi
Jul 2014
#31
Hillary was behind the coup in Honduras in 2009 that overthrew Manuel Zelaya and caused
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#96
Here is the attitude of many posters, brought down to a level anyone can understand.
Dreamer Tatum
Jul 2014
#83
That's the kind of logic I'm talkin' about! (you just left off the part threatening his kids)
griloco
Jul 2014
#100
This matter is about a million times simpler than you demand it should be
Dreamer Tatum
Jul 2014
#104
Gosh, when you put it that way. You should call Argentina* and tell them. Simply
griloco
Jul 2014
#108
Months pass. Borrower, who has defaulted on debt in the past, defaults on this debt, too.
merrily
Aug 2014
#194
They're called "vultures" for a reason. If Argentina can't afford to pay them off she
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#92
I don't have a mortgage--I pay rent. And I pay it first thing every month. But with
Louisiana1976
Jul 2014
#155
Clearly, "It doesn't matter what some judge says" was never intended to state a legal theory.
merrily
Aug 2014
#195
Inasmuch as I haven't given them any credit at all, it's hard to see how I am giving them too much.
merrily
Aug 2014
#226
And despite the headline of the thread, all the posts on the thread were about Singer, not
merrily
Aug 2014
#196
200 posts on this thread, some of them long, and you claim 4 sentences make the thread only about
merrily
Aug 2014
#201
because someone dared to get the 'progressives' off their game by arguing against the real point...
wyldwolf
Aug 2014
#202
I had the mixed blessing of coming to this thread late and reading from start to finish.
merrily
Aug 2014
#203
Your post was such an "accurate" description of the posts on this thread that it demanded an LOL.
merrily
Aug 2014
#199
your post was such a perfect example of strawman reasoning, it deserved a LOL
wyldwolf
Aug 2014
#200