General Discussion

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)

137. Same here.

Wed Sep 17, 2014, 02:35 PM

Sep 2014

They don't seem to grasp that the onus is on them to get Democrats to move towards another candidate, not just to move "away from Hilary".

Folks who liked Hillary before still do. To get them to switch, you'd need a compelling alternative. Just screaming about how evil Hillary is won't work.

But here they are. Demanding that we convince them to vote for Hillary, when it should be them convincing us that their alternative candidate (which they don't have) is sufficiently compelling for us to switch.

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If you want people on the left to vote for HRC IF she's nominated, MAKE A CASE FOR HER! [View all] Ken Burch Sep 2014 OP

The short answer is always . . . gratuitous Sep 2014 #1

That would make a good drinking game LWolf Sep 2014 #165

vote for whoever you want JI7 Sep 2014 #2

Me either. tazkcmo Sep 2014 #3

She's the low information voter candidate n2doc Sep 2014 #4

Republicans won't vote for her AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #29

Who said anything about Republicans? n/t n2doc Sep 2014 #34

That's a ridiculous assertion. Agschmid Sep 2014 #138

I don't see why we have to beg them to vote for our nominee treestar Sep 2014 #5

So true ... So true, all of that. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #6

I agree. And I'd add that people need look past a four year term. SCOTUS nominations last decades. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #7

Do you really trust Hillary Clinton to nominate progressive SCOTUS justices? tularetom Sep 2014 #21

Yes AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #31

Bill didn't...and she doesn't disagree with him on much of anything. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #33

Are you telling me you are disappointed with Justice Ginsberg? still_one Sep 2014 #58

No. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #63

Do you even know Hillary record? The arguments that folks accuse Hillary of have the same depth as still_one Sep 2014 #71

Yeah, right AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #80

I have to disagree with you davidpdx Sep 2014 #185

lol AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #79

You are stuck with centrists treestar Sep 2014 #107

What? MFrohike Sep 2014 #145

lol treestar Sep 2014 #156

Uh, what? MFrohike Sep 2014 #158

Hell No! Phlem Sep 2014 #178

Yes Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2014 #39

They have to nominate someone who will get confirmed treestar Sep 2014 #106

as much as I admittedly distrust Hillary DonCoquixote Sep 2014 #153

Yes, we can do a LOT better than Hillary, which is not saying much. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2014 #184

Because those asking are not really Democrats....they are the Independents that THINK VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #10

Who do you think "their own candidate" IS? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #36

I mean their own Candidate.....in their own party....the Independents VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #146

+1 treestar Sep 2014 #108

EXACTLY.....they don't want a President.....they want a messiah that can fix everything.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #190

Because not 'begging' is how you end up with the 2000 election? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #12

This is true, but that's why the centrists treestar Sep 2014 #109

I don't have to be 'satisfied' to win my vote (since I am 'a far leftist'.) Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #115

My candidate did win treestar Sep 2014 #116

And you continue to caricature the far left. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #118

Again, why do we have to court it? treestar Sep 2014 #119

I do always turn up. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #120

But now you are saying it has to be courted treestar Sep 2014 #123

I didn't always vote for the Dem before. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #124

You are taking the same attitude that Rahm Emanuel did, implying "we don't have a choice"... cascadiance Sep 2014 #142

Then the average voter is clueless. Phlem Sep 2014 #179

Not "beg"...persuade. There's a difference. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #23

They can't be persuaded treestar Sep 2014 #110

My main concern is voting in 2014! sheshe2 Sep 2014 #43

Yes, that's so true treestar Sep 2014 #111

Making a case is not begging. Make it👍 grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #183

the ONLY case I need is she is a Democrat that will kick the Republican fields ASS! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #8

No other case needs to be made Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2014 #17

Exactly...How fucking dare these Independents declare that WE must convince them.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #19

You can't just call anyone who won't unquestioningly back HRC an "Independent" Ken Burch Sep 2014 #27

IF she wins the primary and they don't.....they are an Independent by default sorry.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #41

What would matter is what they did on Election Day...NOT what they say they'd do today. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #46

to YOU maybe.....I don't know about you....but my agenda is to talk to Democrats VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #49

The Democratic ticket needs the support of progressive independents in order to win in the fall. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #54

but I don't have to just stand by and listen to their whiny asses complain about Democrats VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #56

Who, exactly, do you mean by "one of their own"? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #59

INDEPENDENTS aren't they WHO we were talking about? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #64

I meant who is the candidate that is "one of their own"? Ken Burch Sep 2014 #70

THESE Independents we were talking about....You know...those that cannot accept VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #72

A lot of the people who disagree with you are Democrats, too. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #78

NOT if they say they won't vote in the Primaries if so and so is the winner they are not.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #88

There haven't been a lot of people saying they won't vote in the primaries. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #91

OH YES the hell there HAS! That is why I ask that question around here.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #92

Independents? :( Maybe if the Republicans would nominate an Eisenhower (thought they won't) cascadiance Sep 2014 #133

YOU are the one calling them Corporatists...notice that those that REALLY support Democrats VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #143

I am MORE of a Democrat than the so-called "centrist" BS Koch-based takeover of the party! cascadiance Sep 2014 #147

You are not more Democrat than someone who AGREES to vote for whomever their FELLOW Democrats VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #151

She hasn't declared herself a candidate yet, let alone win ANY primary elections yet... cascadiance Sep 2014 #157

and Bernie is STILL not a Democrat.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #159

You don't have to listen to anyone or anything, but be clear on this: DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2014 #149

It IS how it is....that is the difference between a Democrat who believes in Democracy VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #160

I think you are confused and don't understand why newer democracies use parliamentary... cascadiance Sep 2014 #166

No actually I am not.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #167

Hear, hear!!! Beacool Sep 2014 #170

its nothing but an attempted coup de tat by VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #174

Rarrrrrrr! Union Scribe Sep 2014 #82

You don't have to justify your support of anyone. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #22

Hillary would have been -- what 17 when Goldwater ran?? Algernon Moncrieff Sep 2014 #24

She worked to elect Republicans. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #26

as a fucking child.....now who has a strawman argument! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #42

Not me. You better go look up what 'strawman argument' actually means Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #53

Yeah YOU.....you want to hold someone who canvassed for a Republican when they were VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #144

Why would you canvas for a candidate you would not vote for, if I may ask? Thanks. nt Mnemosyne Sep 2014 #155

because I was a KID!!! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #161

I just asked a question. nt Mnemosyne Sep 2014 #163

and it was a dumb question....you thought it was a "gotcha" VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #168

Yes Hillary worked for Goldwater campaign, she became disillusioned, voted in 1968 for a Democrat. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #55

I wasn't pointing it out to 'diss' her. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #62

Idiotic argument. Beacool Sep 2014 #175

Not really. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #188

It matters whether the candidate is more like them than not. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #25

You don't even know THAT for sure. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #30

Policies. And Hillary's are conservative Republican with the exception of a few social issues. Scuba Sep 2014 #40

Really. Do you even know what you are talking about. Please tell me which of these issues in her still_one Sep 2014 #67

She's a corporatists and a warhawk. Scuba Sep 2014 #86

did you even read the link? still_one Sep 2014 #94

She works for Goldman Sachs. She supports the TPP. She loves the war machine. Scuba Sep 2014 #97

You have so much animosity you cannot even answer my question still_one Sep 2014 #100

LOL, good one! n-t Logical Sep 2014 #96

+1 treestar Sep 2014 #112

Umm, how about, you know, something about policies? LondonReign2 Sep 2014 #139

She will kick Republican ass and protect and build on ACA Sheepshank Sep 2014 #154

Somebody out there posted a long list of her accomplishments over the years Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #9

then you must not have read her accomplishments... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #11

I read em. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #13

apparently not.... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #14

tl,dnr. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #15

Its not just copy and paste if it is all readily publically available... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #16

Oh wow, playground insults! Chicken, yeah, that'll really make me change my mind. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #18

that is all that kind of thinking deserves..... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #20

Wow, a real answer to the question in the OP. ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #37

You are welcome..... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #44

Apparently I am a hard core liberal Kalidurga Sep 2014 #103

How about linking to this wall of text AtomicKitten Sep 2014 #186

easy peasy I do it all the time...Its a WALL of FACTS! VanillaRhapsody Sep 2014 #189

Let's concentrate on 2014 first Politicalboi Sep 2014 #28

Vote as you please. n/t Lil Missy Sep 2014 #32

If she runs and wins the nomination, that MineralMan Sep 2014 #35

+1 aikoaiko Sep 2014 #76

Most of the responses in this thread are hilarious. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2014 #38

Nominees always campaign (to my knowledge) Progressive dog Sep 2014 #45

Well, for one thing, there's the Supreme Court. KamaAina Sep 2014 #47

Another pouty OP wyldwolf Sep 2014 #48

HRC keeps undermining the case by moving further and further right Ken Burch Sep 2014 #50

And THAT reply ^ is another example of quickly altering the point of your OP wyldwolf Sep 2014 #52

You're lashing out in this thread. Union Scribe Sep 2014 #83

I am being very calm wyldwolf Sep 2014 #87

if you feel this way don't vote for her JI7 Sep 2014 #61

I've already said I'll vote lesser-evil for her. Ken Burch Sep 2014 #65

many Hillary supporters are the left JI7 Sep 2014 #69

How could anyone who backed peace and workers' rights Ken Burch Sep 2014 #73

This "left" just LOVES having H-1B indentured servant program grow doesn't it! cascadiance Sep 2014 #134

It's sort of a new "left"-- that grew alongside Fox News and talk radio. Marr Sep 2014 #150

But please wait until AFTER the 2014 elections to begin making your case arcane1 Sep 2014 #51

If I wanted to argue with people who don't have at least a foregone assumption that they'll vote for Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #57

Agreed. n/t pnwmom Sep 2014 #66

Walmart shoppers will be thrilled to have an ex Walmart corporate lawyer B Calm Sep 2014 #60

Because there isn't a single Repub who is to the left of her, and I'll vote for the most progressive pnwmom Sep 2014 #68

The best case for her is her record. Here it is: still_one Sep 2014 #74

no need to make a case drray23 Sep 2014 #75

You already know the answer. It's the same one people gave you in every election since Bush 2000 aikoaiko Sep 2014 #77

Did she announce she's running? zappaman Sep 2014 #81

I can't even care until then... Phentex Sep 2014 #117

Exactly. zappaman Sep 2014 #127

I am voting for Hilary if she gets the nominee yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #84

It's not arrogant to ask posters to make their case when imploring others to vote for Hillary. Maedhros Sep 2014 #176

I will but not until she gets the nomination yeoman6987 Sep 2014 #180

she is not a republicon noiretextatique Sep 2014 #85

But..but..all she has to do is have a (D) after her name and be "not as bad" as a rabid piranha. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2014 #89

I don't think there is a case to be made. LawDeeDah Sep 2014 #90

I think this OP is ridiculous. Her record stands on her own. See the link below still_one Sep 2014 #95

That's quite the list. LawDeeDah Sep 2014 #105

The "people on the left" you're talking about are not really DUers... yodermon Sep 2014 #93

She can win. NanceGreggs Sep 2014 #98

Sums up my thinking perfectly Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2014 #172

over 90 posts... choie Sep 2014 #99

She is not a Republican Kalidurga Sep 2014 #101

You have this backwards. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #102

I am concerned about HRC, if for no other reason than the mass media's onslaught to ensure Half-Century Man Sep 2014 #104

I won't hold my breath waiting for that. 99Forever Sep 2014 #113

Again?? theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #114

Perhaps. 99Forever Sep 2014 #121

Yes, it did. From multiple DUers. theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #122

Fail. 99Forever Sep 2014 #125

And your response is why some won't bother to post on this thread theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #128

Then don't post on them. 99Forever Sep 2014 #136

Pot, meet kettle. theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #140

Disagreeing with abysmal policy is not "bashing." Maedhros Sep 2014 #177

Notice they are not trying to get Hillary supporters to switch. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #126

These types of threads are having the opposite effect on me, matter of fact theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #129

Same here. JoePhilly Sep 2014 #137

There are a number of candidates who I believe are qualified and I would vote for them theHandpuppet Sep 2014 #141

I haven decided if HRC would be my choice in the primary.............. wandy Sep 2014 #130

easy. she defeats any GOP candidate hands down beachbum bob Sep 2014 #131

And how many Democrats if nominated wouldn't say the SAME THING! cascadiance Sep 2014 #135

There will never be a dream candidate. upaloopa Sep 2014 #132

SHE CAN YELL REALLY LOUD INTO A MICROPHONE AngryAmish Sep 2014 #148

Why the hell should I waste my time..... armed_and_liberal Sep 2014 #152

Not my job, sir Generic Brad Sep 2014 #162

She can raise $2 billion. joshcryer Sep 2014 #164

Vote for her, don't vote for her. Beacool Sep 2014 #169

I'm REALLY not interested in making the case for my preferred candidate prior to about Feb, 2015. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #171

It's her turn. Octafish Sep 2014 #173

Are we talking suitcase, legal case, brief case...hand bag....traveling case? MissMarple Sep 2014 #181

Because they'd be idiots if they didn't? LuvLoogie Sep 2014 #182

How about we deal with the primaries, first? Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #187