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H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 11:46 AM Sep 2014

The War Machine [View all]

In reading discussions on DU:GD in the past few days, it is evident that -- as in the rest of the country -- there is a divide between those who support President Obama’s actions versus Isis, and those who are opposed to the “newest” war. Although I am generally opposed to the current march to war, I recognize that many of the Obama supporters make valid, important points. One area where I disagree is where a friend noted his belief that it is incorrect to compare the current conflict to the Bush-Cheney attack on Iraq, and/or the Vietnam War.

I’m reminded of one of my favorite quotes, from the Persian Sufi poet Jalal-ad-din Rumi: “This world and yonder world are incessantly giving birth: every cause is a mother, its effect the child. When the effect is born, it too becomes a cause and gives birth to wonderous effects. These causes are generation on generation, but it needs a very well lighted eye to see the links in their chain.”

President Obama is without question a highly intelligent human being. The combination of his intellect, and his promise to effect change within our system of government, created great excitement in 2008. In particular, I believed his stance on the Bush-Cheney policy of military aggression was essential for getting the United States on a positive track.

Now, however, as he pursues a path that was perhaps forced upon him, in the sense that the dynamics in the Middle East include problems that are a direct result of Bush-Cheney, it seems fair to ask if, rather than him changing the system, has the system changed him?

The United States is neither the source of all good, or all bad, in the world today. Our role truly has been a mixed bag of very good and very bad. I believe that it is fair to say that more of that good has resulted from the actions of the Democratic Party, and more bad from the republicans. Yet, in a very real sense, those at the top of both parties have acted as advocates for corporate interests. It would be impossible, for example, to have a firm grasp of American policy in the Middle East, without recognizing and taking into account the influence of oil.

Likewise, there are benefits to understanding “systems.” When a person is placed within a system, either willingly or unwillingly, where he/she finds many things that are highly offensive, unless that person can simply drop out, they tend to follow a general path. First, they observe the system; then they begin to evaluate it for its strengths and weaknesses. They attempt to identify those regions within the system that are comfortable to them. They look for areas to stand their ground, and also areas where they are willing to compromise. In time, they become acclimated to the system, and begin to accept the limitations on their ability to change it. In time, they come to accept the system, including both its positive and negative features. Eventually, they become comfortable enough to accept the system for what it is, and become part of it.

It would be foolish to think that Obama could serve two terms as president, and not become part of the very system that, as a candidate, he promised to change. Yet, it would be equally foolish to believe that, because he is president, that our system’s approach in the current conflict will be significantly different than that of Bush-Cheney. The chances of this “new” war policy, as it unfolds over the coming years, having a different outcome seem rather small. Indeed, even the promise that there will be no American boots on the ground is a lie: special forces are there already, in the role of “advisors” -- exactly as we had “advisors” in Vietnam during the Eisenhower and Kennedy years.

Judging by the polls I’ve seen reported on the news, the majority of Americans support the President’s decision to bomb Isis in Iraq and Syria -- even though they do not think the outcome will be successful. Perhaps this is the result of the system’s conditioning, for few in the House and Senate are challenging the administration. Indeed, even the media is portraying the new war as our nation’s only viable option.

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The War Machine [View all] H2O Man Sep 2014 OP
Very thoughtful post n2doc Sep 2014 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 2014 #7
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ~Albert Einstein Scuba Sep 2014 #2
It surprises me that H2O Man Sep 2014 #8
You said this: it seems fair to ask if, rather than him changing the system, has the system changed sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #21
Like I say below: Obama gave up RobertEarl Sep 2014 #22
Cheney has been very vocal about ISIS. Same way he was vocal about Al Queda. sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #23
Good point. H2O Man Sep 2014 #26
Don't know if you've seen this part of his Address to the UN.... KoKo Sep 2014 #3
Very important. H2O Man Sep 2014 #9
That's what disturbs me most malaise Sep 2014 #14
Same questions many of us have... KoKo Sep 2014 #16
That's the really sad part of all of this malaise Sep 2014 #18
Well done! Zorra Sep 2014 #4
Thanks! H2O Man Sep 2014 #10
The corporate media are enemies of both democracy and malaise Sep 2014 #15
It's a transition action - and it is disheartening that so few are comprehending the enormity blm Sep 2014 #5
Interesting. H2O Man Sep 2014 #11
Kerry helped orchestrate Maliki's exit. No progress COULD be made with Maliki there blm Sep 2014 #24
This thread needs some music. Initech Sep 2014 #6
Thanks. H2O Man Sep 2014 #12
Obama begged RobertEarl Sep 2014 #13
Which People are Bloodthirsty... Americans (?) from some Poll that we don't KoKo Sep 2014 #17
Eh? RobertEarl Sep 2014 #20
I love the quote. panader0 Sep 2014 #19
Thanks. H2O Man Sep 2014 #30
Vietnam, G_j Sep 2014 #25
The quagmire aspect H2O Man Sep 2014 #31
and whenever I hear about "advisors" on the ground... G_j Sep 2014 #32
Exactly right. H2O Man Sep 2014 #34
One person cannot change this system. kentuck Sep 2014 #27
Right. H2O Man Sep 2014 #33
excellent post cali Sep 2014 #28
I think that is exactly what has happened. kentuck Sep 2014 #29
Thanks. H2O Man Sep 2014 #35
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