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JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
131. That is because they don't like Assad
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 09:11 AM
Feb 2015

No one who is near him likes him, especially Turkey. In fact one of their planes was shot down by Syrian armed forces. In any case, they have accepted many Iraq & Syria refugees but they have a lot of problems in government much like we do.

I don't have an issue with your suggestions except with NATO strong arm tactics and who is or who isn't supposed to be our ally, they have their own interests & that Syria-Turkey border is one of the most dangerous in the world. (CIA also used those Turkey smuggling routes to deliver arms to the rebels). Also teaming up with Iran would be a bad mistake. They back the Shia militias in Iraq & the guy the CIA installed as PM in Iraq was a Shia in exile in Iran & both terrorize Sunni populations, people that don't want war & also don't want to be killed if they don't find their way out of the country. I agreed with John Kerry it was inappropriate for Iran to join discussions but for the same reasons, I felt it was inappropriate for us to be there as well.

Situations are different but I think a lot of what this article mentions applies here as well given that it is an identity politics driven conflict which artocities are being committed by all sides, leading to the current political instability that exists. My problem is the US & or NATO picking a side because whoever is being picked against are massive war crimes waiting to happen. The situation in Syria is incredibly complex & will be like this for years. In Iraq, all that is necessary is for Shia majority elected officials (rather than CIA installed) allow Sunni(as well as Kurds, Mandeaens, etc) participation & protests & inclusion). Don't use an Iraqi Army/Shia militia to raid the homes & kill elected Sunni officials. Not only we shouldn't do it, we're also very bad at it.

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And yet, nagging questions remain. Making the wars even more difficult to grasp is the uncomfortable reality that there were no clear-cut “good guys” and “bad guys” — just a lot of ugliness on all sides. When considering specifically the war between the Croats and the Serbs, it’s tempting for Americans to take Croatia’s “side” because we saw them in the role of victims first; because they’re Catholic, so they seem more “like us” than the Orthodox Serbs; and because we admire their striving for independence. But in the streets and the trenches, it was never that straightforward. The Serbs believe that they were the victims first — back in World War II, when their grandparents were executed in Croat-run Ustaše concentration camps. And when Croats retook the Serb-occupied areas in 1995, they were every bit as brutal as the Serbs had been a few years before. Both sides resorted to genocide, both sides had victims, and both sides had victimizers.

Even so, many can’t help but look for victims and villains. During the conflict in Bosnia-Herzegovina, several prominent and respected reporters began to show things from one “side” more than the others — specifically, depicting the Bosniaks (Muslims) as victims. This reawakened an old debate in the journalism community: Should reporters above all remain impartial, even if “showing all sides” might make them feel complicit in ongoing atrocities?

As for villains, it’s easy to point a finger at Slobodan Milošević, Radovan Karadžić, Ratko Mladić, and other political or military leaders who have been arrested and tried at The Hague. Others condemn the late Croatian President Franjo Tuđman, who, it’s now known, secretly conspired with Milošević to redraw the maps of their respective territories. And of course, the foot soldiers of those monstrous men — who followed their immoral orders — cannot be excused.

And yet, you can’t paint an entire group with one brush. While some Bosnian Serbs did horrifying things, only a small fraction of all Bosnian Serbs participated in the atrocities. Travelers to this region quickly realize that the vast majority of people they meet here never wanted these wars. And so finally comes the inevitable question: Why did any of it happen in the first place?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-does-the-u-s-support-saudi-arabia-a-country-which-hosts-and-finances-islamic-terrorism-on-behalf-of-washington/5398408

I know big differences but basically leaders/fascists commit atrocities & people recede to their groups for protections & so many things due their neighborhoods becoming war-torn.

The problem is that we felt much the same way for years about the Taliban. potone Feb 2015 #1
It will take all of... YvonneCa Feb 2015 #13
We didn't even TRY in Afghanistan, remember? MH1 Feb 2015 #21
Trying is where we screwed up in Iraq JonLP24 Feb 2015 #124
Cut off ISIS' supply of money from KSA and GCC elites. We know who the funders are - just do it. leveymg Feb 2015 #2
I agree ...You can cut off the funds and it wont stop the killings. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #4
ISIS wouldn't last a month without constant financing from Jeddah and Doha. leveymg Feb 2015 #8
We broke it and made a safe haven for them glasshouses Feb 2015 #3
Air support for the Kurds & Iraqis seems to be working tabasco Feb 2015 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #6
The PKK has apparently decisively defeated ISIS in Kobani. But we can't help them because, um, KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #7
What, exactly, are you talking about? tabasco Feb 2015 #83
The PKK is the Kurdistan Workers' Party (Partiya Karkeren Kurdistani). While I don't have any links KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #110
Roosevelt knew we needed to go against the Nazi's long before the American people could be jwirr Feb 2015 #9
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....very good. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #10
Reminds me of that PNAC document CJCRANE Feb 2015 #14
I know that there are many who believe that regarding 9/11. And to be fair FDR was accused of jwirr Feb 2015 #16
CJ...How does the world stop ISIS ? Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #17
No response ? Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #42
We'll find out soon enough CJCRANE Feb 2015 #44
So you can envision a scenario where you would support the use of US ground troops? Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #47
If they release the rest of the 9/11 report and the Iraq Inquiry report soon CJCRANE Feb 2015 #48
I wanted to know whether YOU would support the use of US troops. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #50
I don't support the use of US or foreign troops in the region. nt CJCRANE Feb 2015 #51
Thank you. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #53
+100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #33
It's was Hitler's declaring war on the U.S. that actively involved the country in Europe Lurks Often Feb 2015 #20
I don't blame him for this since he had no idea in 1945 JonLP24 Feb 2015 #127
Do something? 99Forever Feb 2015 #11
******** Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #12
ok then what? qazplm Feb 2015 #15
Apply, lather, rinse, repeat.. 99Forever Feb 2015 #18
99...Take a stand. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #26
We get the fuck out of other nations business... 99Forever Feb 2015 #111
Saudi Arabia, Burma, North Korea, JonLP24 Feb 2015 #125
ISIS was just forced to abandon a city (I forget which one) because of the bombing campaign. randome Feb 2015 #28
A guerilla group just kicked them out of northern iraq. It's not like they're some magic invincible ND-Dem Feb 2015 #34
They think they are. Bomb them with cubicles and they'll come around! randome Feb 2015 #54
as i said: guerillas just kicked them out of iraq. somehow their fearsome invincibleness did not ND-Dem Feb 2015 #67
Everybody LiberalElite Feb 2015 #19
Thats what i was getting at . Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #24
I really don't like IS. And think there's little we should do about it directly. Igel Feb 2015 #22
Choices: AngryAmish Feb 2015 #23
Air, fuel Munitions H. Cromwell Feb 2015 #25
Yours is the first tactical military response. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #27
Let Kurdish communist separatists deal with it. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #36
Another ******** Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #39
***** yourself. if you can't rebut the argument, why resort to disguised name-calling? ND-Dem Feb 2015 #41
Using military force WILL NOT defeat ISIS. They'll just morph into another terrorist group BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #37
Not enough discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #45
Cut off their funds by freezing their bank accounts. You don't think ISIS is caring millions of BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #29
Sounds wonderful. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #30
Yeah. History on war itself. eom BlueCaliDem Feb 2015 #35
But then we miss out on the righteous bloodshed as we smite the wicked. Boring Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #64
Historical proof of what JonLP24 Feb 2015 #128
I'm not an ISIS propaganda expert JonLP24 Feb 2015 #129
Under principle of ' Never Again' need international military force on point Feb 2015 #31
This can be largely a local affair. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #32
Grumpy... I was waiting for you. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #40
The goal is not to throw Turkey out of NATO, but to change it's behavior. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #120
That is because they don't like Assad JonLP24 Feb 2015 #131
Wow... "needs to be pressured to behave" Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #138
+1000. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #76
Yet another existential threat to humanity? guillaumeb Feb 2015 #38
And I think that is the problem with those trying to say our best response is "Stay out of it" stevenleser Feb 2015 #58
world cop guillaumeb Feb 2015 #60
Your rhetoric is not an answer to the question posed by the OP. Try again. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #63
Au contraire guillaumeb Feb 2015 #80
Nope. The answer to what to do about ISIS is not "America bad" stevenleser Feb 2015 #85
ignore the point 101 guillaumeb Feb 2015 #86
You have no point that addresses the question of the OP. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #97
Actually, yes. They did answer the question. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #89
No, they didn't. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #96
Off the top rope for the win with one simple word... "blowback." Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #88
thanks guillaumeb Feb 2015 #94
The cave man thinking on this thread amounts to "Enough gasoline will put out that fire." Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #99
Nope, that is not an answer to the OP, or alternate suggestion to mine. Nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #95
You mean your "bomb our way out of this problem we bombed our way into" was serious? Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #100
choices guillaumeb Feb 2015 #115
No, it means that person has to come up with an idea of some sort, they didn't. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #117
re: "So what do you want to do about it?" discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2015 #43
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #46
start a REAL war....or not, decision needed quadrature Feb 2015 #49
You don't have any tough choice to make at all. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #90
Not much. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2015 #52
Great honest answer. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #55
I wish I had a better one. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2015 #66
Mexican Drug Cartels Astrad Feb 2015 #56
+100. It's interesting to see who's for US intervention. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #70
Have Congress issue Letters Marque and Reprisal authorizing Zetas to eliminate Daesh AngryAmish Feb 2015 #81
My ideas would violate the Geneva Convention I suspect Generic Brad Feb 2015 #57
Porn, drugs, booze and video games. Just air drop that shit on top of them all the time. Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #59
amen guillaumeb Feb 2015 #65
Step 1: stop funding the problem Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #61
+100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #68
One critical flaw in the logic of your post... crusades are awesome! Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #72
they should be taken out militarily asap. samsingh Feb 2015 #62
Erect Bogeyman, wave flag, declare we need protection, give more money to the MIC. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #69
I could take Rhinodawg's posts about ISIS more seriously if he wasn't also running around here alcibiades_mystery Feb 2015 #71
Green energy. Remove the impetus for the western energy industry to be there. Marr Feb 2015 #73
Great answer. I agree. nt CJCRANE Feb 2015 #105
Want? Send Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, & Co. moondust Feb 2015 #74
They wouldn't know how to clean up GP6971 Feb 2015 #77
I think it's worth a try. n/t moondust Feb 2015 #78
Scott Walker agrees that we "should do something". Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #75
Deal with the source of the ISIS problem. Take three steps back in international actions since 9/11 kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #79
Obama's military has been smart so far Warpy Feb 2015 #82
You're like their publicist whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #84
Terrorists, your game is through cause now you have ta answer to America, Fuck yeah! So lick my butt Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #87
I think we should fuck some more shit up. Hissyspit Feb 2015 #91
Thing about the middle east, dig that hole deep enough you'll hit oil someday right? Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #103
Now hear me out, The US Gov puts a bounty, dead or alive, of $500 a head on ISIS ChosenUnWisely Feb 2015 #92
you want shit blown up and people killed KG Feb 2015 #93
Not people, brown people big difference. Brown people we want to kill are savages and savages Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #101
You aren't defending ISIS, are you? WinkyDink Feb 2015 #102
If that is what you are reading you have a serious reading comprehension issue. Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #104
Is it OK if we support the Kurds in their efforts to get fucking ISIS out of Kurdistan? Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #119
This message was self-deleted by its author Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #121
well, like we did after WWII in Japan .... which went from dictatorship to democracy. kwassa Feb 2015 #98
Because the Islamic State continues to expand the battlefield by directing its followers Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #106
Yes, ISIS = Nazi Germany whatchamacallit Feb 2015 #107
We should get the hell out of the ME! napi21 Feb 2015 #108
Air support of reliable friendlies on the ground. MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #109
Stop being a crutch for regional powers, get out of dodge making in clear to the local TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #112
Really ? I guess I'll just say... Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #113
Whatever is done, it must be a united world wide effort pathansen Feb 2015 #114
I'm not sure that will happen. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #116
They've stepped out on civilization. Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #118
Number two is why ISIS is there JonLP24 Feb 2015 #126
You forgot a few options. Their social media policy shows some vunherabilities... Violet_Crumble Feb 2015 #122
Syrian Women Know How to Defeat ISIS JonLP24 Feb 2015 #123
Get the hell out of the Middle East! Chemisse Feb 2015 #130
I prefer containment. Vattel Feb 2015 #132
"Everybody" makes your statement wrong. LWolf Feb 2015 #133
Well, I guess i meant "the vast majority of people here". Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #135
That's why LWolf Feb 2015 #140
I've always felt not flooding the region with money and weapons would be a good start. raouldukelives Feb 2015 #134
Execute a prisoner of theirs every time they kill a civilian. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2015 #136
Thank you for your honest response. Rhinodawg Feb 2015 #137
I imagine a lot of people don't pretend to have absolute answers... LanternWaste Feb 2015 #139
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