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KellyW

(598 posts)
Fri Feb 6, 2015, 09:33 PM Feb 2015

We got a letter from the government telling us our daughter should be vaccinated-we refused [View all]

Last edited Sat Feb 7, 2015, 12:35 AM - Edit history (1)

The fast moving outbreak of vaccine hysteria has swept the nation. The debate has been disappointing, as most debates about controversial public policies are in the USA. When to vaccinate or not is a much more complicated issue than the partisans on each side will consider. I will give you my conclusion up-front. People should have the right to decide for themselves and their dependents if and when to vaccinate.

The story is this; Back in the mid-90s, I live in Sweden, where my daughter was born, to me (an American) and a native Swede. We received a letter from the public health authorities tell us our daughter should be vaccinated against Tuberculosis. TB vaccination is not standard for children in Sweden, but because one of her parents was an ‘immigrant’ we were called in for this vaccination.
The TB vaccine is not benign, it leaves a permeant scar. My other concern was that we were planning to move to the USA and I remembered having skin tests for TB in school every year when I was a child. If you have been vaccinated you will hit positive on a skin test. The risk for my daughter of contracting TB was very small and most strains of TB can be easily and effectively treated. The nurse who we had to talk to was not happy that we were refusing the vaccine, but relented in the face of our opposition.

I am not anti-vaccine, my daughter received all of the other ‘regular’ childhood vaccines and when she was a pre-teen she was vaccinated against HPV, a new, less universal, vaccine. But I still think I made the right decision about the TB vaccine, even though some of my concern was based on wrong information- I don’t think that TB skin tests are still done routinely in US schools.
All vaccines carry a risk of serious, possibly fatal, complications. The odds against a serious adverse reaction is very small. But everyone should be able to take their own chances. I will buy a Powerball lottery ticket today. The odds of my daughter (or myself) dying from a sudden adverse reaction to a vaccine is roughly 300 times greater than me winning Powerball. For me, the minuscule odds are worth $2, but for someone else, miniscule odds might not be worth risking their life.

Vaccinations and the sometimes less than scientific public policy about vaccinations is not universally positive. I am not talking about the fears surrounding autism and MMR. Let’s first look at Polio. Church Bells rang on April 12th 1955 when it was announced that a safe an effective vaccine had been developed for Polio. It is not possible for those of us who grew-up after 1955 to fully understand the joy people felt at conquering this horrible disease. The original Salk vaccine, or inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) was soon superseded by the Sabin Oral polio vaccine (OPV), an attenuated vaccine. The OPV vaccine is more effective and much easier to administer and was widely used. Between 1962 and 1965 about 100 million Americans (roughly 56% of the population at that time) received the Sabin vaccine. The problem is that OPV, can in rare cases, cause vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP), basically, give you devastating polio. -1 case per 750,000 vaccine recipients. As of January 1, 2000, OPV was no longer recommended for routine immunization in the United States.

Rare cases of VAPP was not the only problem on the way to defeating Polio in the US. Early on in the mass vaccination campaign, defective vaccine from Cutter Biologicals caused 153 cases of paralysis and 11 deaths. Much later, it was discovered that from 1955 to 1963 a proportion of vaccine was contaminated with SV40 virus. It has been estimated that 10–30 million Americans may have received a dose of vaccine contaminated with SV40, but adverse health effects of the virus are not conclusive.

Equal disturbing is that public policy is not always dictated by firm science. The 1976 swine flu debacle was driven more by President Ford's re-election campaign than by sound public health policy. As a 13 year old middle school student, I convinced my parents to let me op-out of that mass vaccination program. The 1976 swine flu vaccine is thought to have possibly caused Guillain–Barré syndrome for 1 in 105,000 individuals. The dangers of the flu epidemic were greatly over estimated. A/New Jersey/1976 (H1N1) was detected only from January 19 to February 9 and did not spread beyond Fort Dix. Mass vaccination did not begin in the US until October 1st. 48,161,019 Americans, or just over 22% of the population, were vaccinated. Dick Cheney, who was Ford’s chief of staff at the time was a key driver behind the miss-guided policy. After 9-11, Cheney also advocated for mass vaccination against smallpox out of fear the pox would be used as a terrorist weapon. While it would have been foolish to vaccinate the whole population against smallpox in the absence of any credible threat, I was vaccinated against smallpox as a child, just one jab in the millions the wiped out the disease. I still have the scar.

Just to recap, from the last to the first; I am glad my daughter was not forced to be vaccinated against smallpox because of Cheney’s paranoid ‘war on terror’ manipulations. I am glad I was vaccinated, even though a have a permanent scar, as a part of the campaign that ridded the world of this disease. I am glad I opted out of the ill-conceived, politically motivated 1976 swine-flu vaccination program. I am glad I was vaccinated against Polio, even though I may have been exposed to SV40, as the disease is now virtually wipe-out in the US. I am glad we refused the TB vaccine, the call for which was based on general non-specific demographic profiling- not our actual individual circumstances.

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YOU got a letter, not your children. YOU make the choice for them, it is not a WE event. UNREC. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #1
That's quite a reaction, based apparently misreading the subject line. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #4
I bet "WE" were vaccinated lame54 Feb 2015 #56
Yes, it is a "we" event, involving 2 parents, who made the medical decision for their daughter. n/t pnwmom Feb 2015 #40
And potentially putting lots of other people at risk. alarimer Feb 2015 #87
Did you get a TB vaccine? Did your children? Her family had no more need of the vaccine than you. nt pnwmom Feb 2015 #97
??? shenmue Feb 2015 #2
That was kind of my reaction too. nt Fla Dem Feb 2015 #106
k&r nt bananas Feb 2015 #3
What else do you refuse - LiberalElite Feb 2015 #5
If you read the post, I told you what I refused KellyW Feb 2015 #11
I'm sure the poster makes considered, informed decisions on all other issues of health care, pnwmom Feb 2015 #41
so does waking up BubbaFett Feb 2015 #60
That was my point - LiberalElite Feb 2015 #74
we weren't built to last BubbaFett Feb 2015 #105
What other medications are compulsory mzmolly Feb 2015 #94
Driving/riding in a car has a higher percentage of risk of death/injury, but I bet Fla Dem Feb 2015 #107
You can decide for your kid all you want. onecaliberal Feb 2015 #6
Such an obvious conclusion, so often ignored... Panich52 Feb 2015 #10
Agree. It's not a decision that affects only the individual or family. onecaliberal Feb 2015 #26
TB vaccine is not given in US as a standard vaccine. LisaL Feb 2015 #15
And when was your (and your kids if you have them) last TB vaccination? Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #18
Spare me your baseless assumption. Enjoy the dust bin. onecaliberal Feb 2015 #25
And your last TB vaccination was when? n/t Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #58
TB is not a recommended or widely used evaccination in the US for good reasons magical thyme Feb 2015 #69
+1 RandySF Feb 2015 #27
"But your kid should then be isolated from society..." So should adults whose vaccines are no longer mzmolly Feb 2015 #95
Yes, the positive test would cause HUGE problems jeff47 Feb 2015 #7
Your comment prompted me to look at my own Swedish vaccination card KellyW Feb 2015 #8
+1 Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #20
I got a TB vaccination when applying to be a substitute teacher in CA, circa 1971 n/t eridani Feb 2015 #35
I suspected it was testing for TB, rather than a vaccination. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #57
So why not ask for an English version of her card? KitSileya Feb 2015 #47
The card is in Swedish, French and English and printed with the WHO logo KellyW Feb 2015 #99
most health professionals are not vaccinated either, unless they work in high risk fields magical thyme Feb 2015 #68
Your child was not given a TB vaccine. LisaL Feb 2015 #16
The argument made in the OP applies to all vaccines, not specifically TB jeff47 Feb 2015 #80
And when did your children have their TB vaccinations? n/t Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #17
OP's argument is about all vaccines, not only TB. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #83
So which vaccination did the OP NOT have, that you or your child did, that Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #86
Those records would not be very helpful. LisaL Feb 2015 #22
It is true that TB vaccine is not very effective when given to adults. KellyW Feb 2015 #24
the tb vaccine has a very, very poor rate of effectiveness. magical thyme Feb 2015 #53
It still would excuse a positive test. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2015 #81
excuse the positive test from what? magical thyme Feb 2015 #88
actually, no you couldn't present vaccination records to assume a false positive magical thyme Feb 2015 #71
Yes, you really can. I'm absolutely sure you can do so jeff47 Feb 2015 #82
your vaccination records excuse you from what? magical thyme Feb 2015 #91
I think I should be able to drive down the road Downwinder Feb 2015 #9
She refused TB for her kid and Ilsa Feb 2015 #29
You neglected a misconception... Panich52 Feb 2015 #12
1.3 percent of tuberculosis cases in the U.S. were resistant to both isoniazid and rifampin KellyW Feb 2015 #19
I think vaccination is a good idea Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2015 #13
her child was vaccinated against all the normal childhood diseases magical thyme Feb 2015 #100
The TB story is complicated. hunter Feb 2015 #14
I was vaccinated on the INSIDE of my arm Ino Feb 2015 #21
Whetever vaccine it was, it was not a TB vaccine. LisaL Feb 2015 #23
Perhaps it was the TB/PPD screening test. My kid had that as a toddler. n/t winter is coming Feb 2015 #31
That's a test for TB, not a vaccination. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #59
It was a smallpox vaccination. Ino Feb 2015 #77
Now, it doesn't have to be anyplace at all :) Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #79
Mine too shanti Feb 2015 #90
You can do whatever you want with your kids. RandySF Feb 2015 #28
Her kid is vaccinated Ilsa Feb 2015 #30
I am her father acutely... KellyW Feb 2015 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #42
"When to vaccinate or not is a much more complicated issue" MattBaggins Feb 2015 #33
I'll stipulate that the swine flu vaccine was a mistake, with the facts as you present them steve2470 Feb 2015 #34
CDC doesn't recommend TB vaccine except in very select cases. LisaL Feb 2015 #37
Once again my point is proven KellyW Feb 2015 #39
You are aware that TB is not a recommended vaccination in the US - Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #65
Really rockodman Feb 2015 #36
"the right to decide for themselves and their dependents if and when to vaccinate" or gvts telling uppityperson Feb 2015 #38
Thank you, KellyW. pnwmom Feb 2015 #43
Right wing nonsense is creeping into the Democratic party AgingAmerican Feb 2015 #44
Honestly, you disgust me. nt alp227 Feb 2015 #45
Lulz..nt Jesus Malverde Feb 2015 #51
You lost me at your first inflammatory, stupid paragraph. SunSeeker Feb 2015 #46
Try to follow along, this is important KellyW Feb 2015 #48
Well said. Ilsa Feb 2015 #50
Thimerosal is actually not out of all pediatric vaccinations. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #61
Flu vaccine is not mandated -But some have suggested adding it to the mandatory list KellyW Feb 2015 #67
Yet, anyway - and quite a few here have been screaming to make it mandatory Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #84
I can "follow along" your bullshit just fine. I can read. SunSeeker Feb 2015 #76
I was the lucky recipient of the swine flu vaccine in February of 1977... ladyVet Feb 2015 #49
I don't know JimmydaRustler Feb 2015 #52
Enjoy your stay Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #54
well shanti Feb 2015 #89
If she keeps touting CTs it won't be long. However infrequent she posts. Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #98
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2015 #101
Bully for you. Too bad for the rest of us. WhiteTara Feb 2015 #55
And when was your last TB vaccination? Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #62
I had the actual disease WhiteTara Feb 2015 #63
Sorry to hear that - Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #64
However, in the 50s it and polio WhiteTara Feb 2015 #66
This is what is required in my state (WA) KellyW Feb 2015 #72
we don't vaccinate the general population against TB in the US magical thyme Feb 2015 #75
They didn't routinely vaccinate against TB in the US, ever. Ms. Toad Feb 2015 #78
DPT=diptheria, pertussis, typhoid. n/t dgibby Feb 2015 #104
Jesus. This is a masterpiece of paranoid mis-direction. Aristus Feb 2015 #70
There is no fucking controversy, Jesus Christ! TransitJohn Feb 2015 #73
Safe and effective are relative, not absolute KellyW Feb 2015 #92
Never mind alarimer Feb 2015 #85
... NuclearDem Feb 2015 #93
You lost me at... Atman Feb 2015 #96
Only one human disease has been eradicated-smallpox KellyW Feb 2015 #102
Follow this from your post: mountain grammy Feb 2015 #103
People seem to be less and less interested in doing their part as a member of society. Marr Feb 2015 #108
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