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InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
85. Actually, I was agreein w/ you Mary re where HC's loyalties lie & the premise of YOUR post that candidates shouldn't be forced on us...
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 11:03 AM
Feb 2015

Hence, the debate part. Keep up the good fight! We're winning!

Soon I believe a true progressive will emerge that we can ALL rally around, even the Hillary supporters, who, of course, have every right to support their chosen candidate. That, however, does not give them the right to engage in dishonest debate tactics.

Speakin of which, I can't tell you how many times I've been attacked personally, made to address false "straw person" arguments, and been accused of all kinds of bad intentions - "Hillary hater" seems to be the preferred invective - merely for expressing my opinions here on DU detesting the "sabre rattling", pro-Wall Street, anti-Main Street, etc etc policies Hillary is well known for.

That doesn't mean, however, I don't respect Hillary's right - and that of her supporters - to take more conservative positions to the right of my preferred candidates. I just ask that those defending Hillary do so in a mature and honest way, as you seem to be saying, and as many do. I tip my hat to them and say let's go at it and may the best candidate win.

A bigger concern, however, is that Hillary also engage in a more honest debate with the voters. Hillary HERSELF is showing signs of not being completely open and honest - certainly not with the base - and we will soon start to hear more of her poll-tested phony comments about income inequality and the need for more shared wealth.

I want TRUE, BELIEVABLE progressive candidates to represent me - authentic ones like Obama who started pushing those issues, and Bernie and Elizabeth who have done such a wonderful job continuing that debate, BEFORE they became popular, and indeed, made them so. Not ones who, with their finger constantly in the wind, have to pretend they feel the pain of the "common folk." Some of Hillary's comments are downright embarrassing and cringe worthy, for instance, that she and Bill were "dead broke" cuz they had to make payments on two mansions while putting Chelsea through private and Ivy League schools. Those kind of amateurish comments, which need to be walked back time and time again, are as phony as a three-dollar bill, and EVERYONE can see right through her.

The fact that Hillary - and Bill quite frankly - needs an image "makeover" and she has already started hiring literally dozens of high-paid consultants to advise her what positions to take to make her more popular with the base and seem more palatable so as to get her elected tells me we're making a HUGE mistake if we go with her as our candidate. I could be wrong - I thought I was once, but was mistaken - but truly believe we can do better.

I sincerely hope that many here, like myself, who very much want to see a truly progressive candidate from the Democratic Party elected as the next POTUS, and who plan to devote enormous amounts of time to the campaign to see that it happens, will agree and rally behind a more authentic progressive candidate when the field finally shakes out.

Okay, I'm off my soap box.

Peace.

oh goodie another dem trying to help Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #1
From that Primary, I learned that not all Democrats running for office RiverLover Feb 2015 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #24
shame on you marym625 Feb 2015 #38
There are a lot of people here who do not want US to have opinions. They seem to think only THEY c sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #73
Isn't honest debate one of the fundamental principles of a democracy? InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2015 #77
of course. marym625 Feb 2015 #84
Actually, I was agreein w/ you Mary re where HC's loyalties lie & the premise of YOUR post that candidates shouldn't be forced on us... InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2015 #85
But it was worthy of a soapbox! marym625 Feb 2015 #86
No problem & I appreciate your dilemma. I too am struggling w/ what to do if Hillary, by some miracle, hoodwinks primary voters & wins the nomination. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2015 #87
I hope your tea leaves are correct marym625 Feb 2015 #90
Er, no I was working with MoveOn for the Obama campaign RiverLover Feb 2015 #50
retracted -- while i dont agree with you, the name calling was not called for Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #69
I think it's a safe guess that you're much closer to Romney ideologically than the poster you're responding to. Broward Feb 2015 #66
Yes, and Hillary supporters also forgot how much they despised Obama. DanTex Feb 2015 #2
No, we actually remembered how much we despise the candidates on the right. Vinca Feb 2015 #3
People have grown and changed about some things Renew Deal Feb 2015 #4
PUMA BS. joshcryer Feb 2015 #5
I haven't forgotten...n/t monmouth4 Feb 2015 #6
So if we oppose Hillary's policies we "despise" her. Sounds like bullshit. I admire the woman ... Scuba Feb 2015 #7
+1 marym625 Feb 2015 #39
I'm with you. 99Forever Feb 2015 #47
+1. I'm not looking for a new best buddy or a hero to worship. winter is coming Feb 2015 #65
Exactly, opposing much of what Hillary stands for does not equate with hating her personally. It's a false argument that exposes the weak position of those making it. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2015 #79
I totally agree with your post. a la izquierda Feb 2015 #80
LOL dontcha know, ur required 2 work 4 Hillary if she's the nominee lest u be labeled a "Hillary hater"! (/sarcasm) InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2015 #88
Who has forgotten the P.U.M.A crowd? HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #8
Had to google that. RiverLover Feb 2015 #9
I always thought it was party unity my ass AngryAmish Feb 2015 #12
It became party unity my a@@. HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #18
No we haven't. craigmatic Feb 2015 #10
It was a Primary between two virtually identical candidates, each a tad on the anti equality side of Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #13
Every time I notice that lie from you I'm going to call you out on it Jim Lane Feb 2015 #70
Hillary Clinton is probably not even going to run. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #14
. MohRokTah Feb 2015 #37
No thanks. I would rather stoke fights between republicans than between Democrats. n/t pampango Feb 2015 #15
dont you love these little "helper" dems being so helpfull Romeo.lima333 Feb 2015 #23
Newsflash - its not just this "little" dem RiverLover Feb 2015 #28
so, should we only support Clinton in the primaries? marym625 Feb 2015 #42
I am an Obama supporter. I never "hated" Hillary. Adrahil Feb 2015 #16
+1. I never "hated" Hillary, and as long as she dumps her old campaign team, I'll support her. nt Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #76
I never hated HRC, i just didn't and still don't want her as President. hobbit709 Feb 2015 #17
She was certainly not averse... sendero Feb 2015 #19
Could you really be "astounded" by a candidate who, as Charlie Pierce put it, KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #60
This bs is so divisive, and to post it on a site called Democratic Underground... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #20
so are we supposed to just throw our support to her marym625 Feb 2015 #29
Who said anything about that? But... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #45
I think that's obvious marym625 Feb 2015 #49
Who is shoving her down your throat? EVERY OP HERE is anti-Hillary... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #51
LOL! marym625 Feb 2015 #52
Huh? Look at the GD forum, if you can't see it you're not paying attention. JaneyVee Feb 2015 #54
Do a search marym625 Feb 2015 #58
You're the one who said she's being shoved down your throat... JaneyVee Feb 2015 #61
What? marym625 Feb 2015 #67
Audacity of HOPE as they say... Agschmid Feb 2015 #74
+1. The motive is clear, especially since HRC hasn't even announced she's running. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2015 #78
Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are VERY close in their political outlook. cheapdate Feb 2015 #21
I understand that now, it became clear immediately after Obama took office. RiverLover Feb 2015 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author cheapdate Feb 2015 #36
Yup. Agschmid Feb 2015 #75
She was and is a devisive figure fadedrose Feb 2015 #22
Yeah, well, I was a strong Hillary supporter who had no problem with supporting Obama once NYC Liberal Feb 2015 #26
It is necessary to remind people what happened marym625 Feb 2015 #35
K&R +1000 marym625 Feb 2015 #27
+10000000 RiverLover Feb 2015 #31
We are better than this marym625 Feb 2015 #34
Obama supporters have proved to be far more pragmatic than media shitheads alcibiades_mystery Feb 2015 #30
^^ DAMN! Love it when someone nails it like that. ^^ wyldwolf Feb 2015 #41
I was a Hillary supporter and I think that true to a certain extent. But there was no difference Autumn Feb 2015 #32
Obama supporter here; never hated Hillary bhikkhu Feb 2015 #33
Like Dean supporters before them, many Obama supporters were new to the process wyldwolf Feb 2015 #40
What can we do to depress Dem turn out? JoePhilly Feb 2015 #43
Yup and it is pretty transparent. FSogol Feb 2015 #48
No dice treestar Feb 2015 #44
Good thing you're here to remind them... SidDithers Feb 2015 #46
Not until she was Secretary of State was she truly despicable. Previously, she was just an opport- leveymg Feb 2015 #53
What major role? She was a diplomat. JaneyVee Feb 2015 #55
Along with Petraeus, she was an architect. Described in the NYT, here: leveymg Feb 2015 #59
I totally agree. RiverLover Feb 2015 #57
Zzzzzzzzzzz spanone Feb 2015 #56
Go back to sleep leveymg Feb 2015 #62
boring.....i'll add that. spanone Feb 2015 #64
Sorry about getting ticked off there. leveymg Feb 2015 #68
been there....frequently. always enjoyed your posts... spanone Feb 2015 #71
Obama's 2008 theory of politics has been discredited and Clinton's vindicated geek tragedy Feb 2015 #63
Reading the transcript of a Debate JonLP24 Feb 2015 #72
Thank you for posting this JoniP24 RiverLover Feb 2015 #82
No amnesia here davidpdx Feb 2015 #81
Safe to say that no one at DU has forgtton. cheapdate Feb 2015 #83
i am an obama supporter and i did not despise clinton. nt seabeyond Feb 2015 #89
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