General Discussion

Violet_Crumble

(35,976 posts)

199. I'm Australian and I'm opposed to the TPP not coz of anything I've read on DU...

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:17 AM

Apr 2015

I'm opposed to it because of the bits that have been leaked about the pharmaceutical stuff. That would damage our healthcare system and no-one here except our very RW govt wants that to happen. If that makes me part of a 'crowd', so be it...

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The barnstorming charge here rushing to defend the deplorable TPP [View all] WilliamPitt Apr 2015 OP

If people are viewing the agreement on the basis of "which side supports it", and I am sure some are still_one Apr 2015 #1

Stop being sane and rational on DU:GD. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #6

You are right still_one Apr 2015 #45

I don't have a problem with those that choose to "wait and see" how much damage is done rhett o rick Apr 2015 #15

I believe Thespian2 Apr 2015 #25

and I am addressing the OPs premise that not everyone is pro TPP because they are picking "sides" still_one Apr 2015 #56

I would define the three groups differently. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #74

* ronnie624 Apr 2015 #103

May I parse a bit? Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #106

Good point. Some people secretly belive in trickle-down. What's good for corps is good for us. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #155

Thanks for tossing me into #2 and #3. sheshe2 Apr 2015 #174

Whoah!! Take a step back. Re-read the flow of the discussion. I think you're going off half-cocked Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #184

By the time it is made public it will be a done deal. blackspade Apr 2015 #76

It can be voted up or down, and if it is bad it should be voted down still_one Apr 2015 #77

If it is bad it should be voted down.....but it won't. blackspade Apr 2015 #82

I don't know about that. There are tea party members who are not for it, and there are still_one Apr 2015 #83

since the republicans all love it, and are in a huge majority, it won't be. yours may be the Doctor_J Apr 2015 #95

Perhaps, but I believe there are enough Democrats, and some republicans in Congress to stop the TPA still_one Apr 2015 #130

Kind of lends credence to the idea that the administration wanted a Republican Congress. /nt Marr Apr 2015 #177

If you've been paying attention, bvar22 Apr 2015 #140

1000+ 2banon Apr 2015 #87

Not even then, my friend Demeter Apr 2015 #123

Agreed. I'll refrain from losing my shit until I actually get to read why I should be losing my msanthrope Apr 2015 #88

We won't see TPP until TPA is passed shawn703 Apr 2015 #89

What you are saying is that the TPP won't require 2/3 of the Senate? still_one Apr 2015 #129

CAFTA-DR only needed 54 shawn703 Apr 2015 #132

I don't know, I thought treaties required 2/3 vote. I guess I need to re-examine still_one Apr 2015 #133

Treaties, yes. Not Congressional/Executive agreements. N/T shawn703 Apr 2015 #134

Thanks for the information. I wonder if it can be delayed until 2016 when a new Congress comes in? still_one Apr 2015 #136

Corporatists in both parties support it. appal_jack Apr 2015 #98

And you guys might as well be tbaggers on this issue. Hoyt Apr 2015 #104

If it takes the support of tbaggers on this issue then so be it Joe Turner Apr 2015 #127

You are the guys using the retort that TPP must be bad if Republicans are for it. Hoyt Apr 2015 #141

No you are grasping at straws Joe Turner Apr 2015 #144

+1 You nailed it. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #115

and then Democrats can object powerlessly as the TeaPubliKlans shove it through. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #124

Yup. Here's a NAFTA court case for you Will. Children being poisoned in Peru riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #2

Aren't these threats aspirant Apr 2015 #32

If not extortion, pretty damn close. The NAFTA cases foreshadow TPP's abuses riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #37

Obama is history. Let's look ahead. Hillary Clinton loves the TPP and Fracking. Are you Ready? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #3

Fracking is central to the US energy independent roadmap. joshcryer Apr 2015 #5

Doesn't make it the road map we should use, then. Octafish Apr 2015 #7

I agree. joshcryer Apr 2015 #21

None of those work as transportation fuel, though TransitJohn Apr 2015 #122

That is why we should be pushing electric car infrastructure dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #150

So we can burn more coal? TransitJohn Apr 2015 #151

You replied to Octafish that wind, solar, hydro aren't fuel for transportation dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #153

A miniscule amount of the power for EVs. TransitJohn Apr 2015 #154

No the grid powers Priuses dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #157

Coal powers the grid. TransitJohn Apr 2015 #158

For my grid power I can now choose geothermal dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #180

That sort of geothermal will be great at covering steady state grid power demand, but TransitJohn Apr 2015 #181

She went to bat for Chevron in Bulgaria and Romania. WTF? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #9

+1 And don't forget conservation in the mean time. jwirr Apr 2015 #22

Batteries need an enormous buildout. joshcryer Apr 2015 #28

Indeed, batteries for vehicles alone are going to take a great deal of time. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #34

I did not say it was long term. joshcryer Apr 2015 #39

I agree. Smaller peakers are the trend and part of the solution, short term. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #49

I don't have a problem with it. joshcryer Apr 2015 #93

We don't disagree except on your math. Mixing an annual generation figure with battery capacity??? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #97

Oops, I'm an idiot. joshcryer Apr 2015 #99

Please help us in our effort to prevent expansion of the use of natural gas, as has been promoted... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #100

This is what bothers me: joshcryer Apr 2015 #102

...just like poison is central to chemical corporations. L0oniX Apr 2015 #118

No, President Obama is not "history".. even though some would like to think that. He's very much Cha Apr 2015 #108

Not sure how people here can support it since they haven't read it. joshcryer Apr 2015 #4

Yes Andy823 Apr 2015 #38

We've been burned before. joshcryer Apr 2015 #52

Just the fact that, in a representative democracy, the people are not being allowed to read it stranger81 Apr 2015 #81

Exactly, Andy.. and what's so "disgraceful" is The "Fingerwagger" who gets so "nasty" accusing Cha Apr 2015 #110

People have read the chapters that are leaked. And I trust MSF, Warren, Sanders etc riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #46

And how would it be stopped? jeff47 Apr 2015 #137

Phone calls, emails, and letters. joshcryer Apr 2015 #182

Yeah, forcing them to take 7-figure jobs in the private sector will show them!! jeff47 Apr 2015 #200

I understand the feelings, sometimes it takes time, it's not easy to hear others AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #8

NAFTA tells me all I need to know about these onecaliberal Apr 2015 #10

Paul Ryan budget slasher, Mitch, CoC & others on the right working for TPP says mucho- appalachiablue Apr 2015 #13

Agree. If republicans and chamber are for it, onecaliberal Apr 2015 #16

Compassionate conservatism, nah esp. these days- appalachiablue Apr 2015 #31

That seems to be the entire "pro" argument Doctor_J Apr 2015 #11

Well said Dr. nm rhett o rick Apr 2015 #17

+1 leftstreet Apr 2015 #23

And somewhere here on DU is a list of corporations who have had input to it. That is not comforting jwirr Apr 2015 #26

"he loves me and would never do anything to hurt me" and I'll stand in front of a bus so he may live cherokeeprogressive Apr 2015 #54

I read that post in total 840high Apr 2015 #61

Sometimes I believe there is a significant number of people here who would trade their lives for cherokeeprogressive Apr 2015 #65

Interesting ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #91

Same here MissDeeds Apr 2015 #69

creepy to the extreme Doctor_J Apr 2015 #90

They see him as a paternalistic father figure LittleBlue Apr 2015 #72

Bingo. blackspade Apr 2015 #80

People Just Want to Belong Roy Rolling Apr 2015 #12

Excellent observation Joe Turner Apr 2015 #128

I don't look at the Democratic base in the same way that you seem to. pampango Apr 2015 #14

I would like to know where their commitment to issues betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #70

As a union member I am against sadoldgirl Apr 2015 #18

I could not have said it better. (nt) paleotn Apr 2015 #19

they have been embarrassing DU for a long time Skittles Apr 2015 #20

How can you be against the TPP Eko Apr 2015 #24

Read this. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #36

There you go, Eko Apr 2015 #42

Many do...or at least what they're allowed to know.... paleotn Apr 2015 #55

So you make a decision that something is bad Eko Apr 2015 #59

No...did you actually read and comprehend my post? paleotn Apr 2015 #62

yes, Eko Apr 2015 #189

actually, Eko Apr 2015 #193

I do know what was in the last three. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #68

We do have the leaked chapters that are bad enough riderinthestorm Apr 2015 #47

Yes I read them. Eko Apr 2015 #57

and if found to be unacceptable then what? Sign a petition, wring your hands, or pretend it is great TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #126

I can think if a few other actions. Eko Apr 2015 #162

What is calling your Congressman going to do. Odds are if they are a Democrat they are against it TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #166

Because there are only Eko Apr 2015 #191

You insist on ignoring that the 60 days means NOTHING. We cannot stop passage TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #201

The environmental, intellectual property rights and investment draft chapters cali Apr 2015 #66

But about 95% (maybe more) of the critics on DU know absolutely NOTHING about the TPP. George II Apr 2015 #27

And most of us trust Sherrod Brown, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Barbara Lee, and the rest Doctor_J Apr 2015 #29

Many Dems on the hill have read a significant part of what's in TPP..... paleotn Apr 2015 #44

The attacks on Elizabeth Warren vis a vis the TPP are also deplorable. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #30

I'm sure it corresponds to a spike in "grass roots organizing" expenditures at the DNC/RNC. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #33

And yet the party that is not the same is supporting it as well. cui bono Apr 2015 #35

Interesting Andy823 Apr 2015 #40

Someone said there are 2 main kinds of people interested in politics... doxyluv13 Apr 2015 #41

So damn true +1 n/t whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #53

And on the other hand ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #43

Good point. ucrdem Apr 2015 #51

Bullshit. If the process were open and transparent, Obama's support or not would be secondary cherokeeprogressive Apr 2015 #58

The process for negotiating ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #67

Hell ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #92

As recently as Bush negotiations were more open and transparent than under Obama. pa28 Apr 2015 #172

And what other drafts of trade agreements ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #173

You said the process has never been "open and transparent". pa28 Apr 2015 #175

It hasn't been. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #179

Didn't see much resistance to his Iran treaty? betterdemsonly Apr 2015 #71

Straw man. hay rick Apr 2015 #75

Nope. It's a disaster because McConnell, Ryan and corporate negotiators support it. eridani Apr 2015 #109

Basing one's opinion on what Republicans think ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #168

When have Republicans pushed legislation benefitting the 99%? eridani Apr 2015 #183

"TPP is intended to help corporations fuck over ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #188

From Ellen Brown on Investor-State Dispute Settlement eridani Apr 2015 #192

I asked if ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #194

You don't need to read it if you know how all the other "trade" agreements have eridani Apr 2015 #196

"You don't need to read it ..." NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #198

Give me just ONE thing that has benefited the 99% from past agreements-- eridani Apr 2015 #203

Well, if there is no rational reason to expect ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #204

Either you think that corporations have the right to override governments or you don't eridani Apr 2015 #207

For someone who has stated ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #208

You don't have to read it to know that there will be an investors' rights tribunal eridani Apr 2015 #209

An investors' rights tribunal ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #211

There is no reason whatsoever for them to exist eridani Apr 2015 #212

Let's review, shall we? NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #213

If you know nothing about all the lousy trade deals since NAFTA-- eridani Apr 2015 #214

We're done. NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #215

I essentially asked you this same question last week. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2015 #205

Apologies, but ... NanceGreggs Apr 2015 #206

Got to the first (full) paragraph before. .. 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #48

Nailed it in one Egnever Apr 2015 #84

Funny ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #86

Probably shouldn't waste your time. I'm sure your toenails need trimming or you can find Number23 Apr 2015 #94

it's not about the TPP JI7 Apr 2015 #96

Where did the Op go???? sheshe2 Apr 2015 #178

Just because more than one person disagrees with you doesn't make it barnstorming. nt Hekate Apr 2015 #50

SOS - Circle the wagons and extol the "misunderstood virtues" of another dog shit corporate giveaway whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #60

So am I. 840high Apr 2015 #63

i am not seeing necessarily support of tpp, rather calling out the misinformation from those against seabeyond Apr 2015 #64

I stopped having much faith Barack Obama... 99Forever Apr 2015 #73

amen ibegurpard Apr 2015 #78

Hmm, my car engine is making a funny noise. Should I be worried? Binkie The Clown Apr 2015 #79

since the supporters also approved of the president signing last year's budget, they could be Doctor_J Apr 2015 #85

"the Paul Ryan wing of the democratic party" SMC22307 Apr 2015 #164

Yep, lots of Britney Spears people here. PeteSelman Apr 2015 #101

We should just trust Ron Hubbard! Helen Borg Apr 2015 #156

What's disgraceful? babylonsister Apr 2015 #105

So, why do you call it "deplorable"? jazzimov Apr 2015 #107

I've seen very few here say they can't wait for some of that TPP! Rex Apr 2015 #111

'I tell you 1 and 1 make 3...' KG Apr 2015 #112

Seems to me there are two types of TPP supporters here on DU: Those who ... Scuba Apr 2015 #113

Really? Andy823 Apr 2015 #120

By "anti-everything" "opposers" I suppose you mean these guys .... Scuba Apr 2015 #121

Only if they post on DU Andy823 Apr 2015 #143

I'm not aware of any such "crowd". Scuba Apr 2015 #145

I'm Australian and I'm opposed to the TPP not coz of anything I've read on DU... Violet_Crumble Apr 2015 #199

i do not support tpp. yet those that be like to throw me in the camp. i think you will find another seabeyond Apr 2015 #148

What would it take to convince you it was good or bad? Here's the polll you requested..... Scuba Apr 2015 #161

there you go. i had already voted, opposed. i do not think anything will convince me it is good. seabeyond Apr 2015 #163

seems to me though, per that poll, it does not have the supporters that OP after OP seabeyond Apr 2015 #165

K&R! I'm with you, WilliamPitt! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #114

This chilling thought just occurred to me 90-percent Apr 2015 #116

When corporations are picking the candidates for a Skidmore Apr 2015 #119

Bah ah ah ah aaah L0oniX Apr 2015 #117

k/r. Truth. marmar Apr 2015 #125

I support both Obama and the TPP, and not the TPP because of Obama Yorktown Apr 2015 #131

Hey, I was against it before it was hip. malthaussen Apr 2015 #135

It's not people saying it that make parties "the same." DirkGently Apr 2015 #138

Great post! PowerToThePeople Apr 2015 #149

+1 dreamnightwind Apr 2015 #152

Some one doesn't know what barnstorming means. JoePhilly Apr 2015 #139

Someone doesn't know how to craft the word "someone" WilliamPitt Apr 2015 #146

. Rex Apr 2015 #170

Dang, WilliamPitt, I think you have become a brand. ( as a side note I agree ) nt Snotcicles Apr 2015 #142

TPP = Citizens United blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #147

Didn't you write a similar bashing of the Prez last April on ACA, albeit with very vile language? Hoyt Apr 2015 #159

If It Isn't Bad For Most Of Us Why Can't We See It? colsohlibgal Apr 2015 #160

Barn storming for the pigs at the trough whereisjustice Apr 2015 #167

I've been away since Friday. Then I come across this. mmonk Apr 2015 #169

I call that kind of argument "sophistry" Jack Rabbit Apr 2015 #171

When Bush tried this in 2007 they were all against it. So you're right. I was against it then sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #187

I remember when they were still saying it was some kind of conspiracy theory. Marr Apr 2015 #176

Life is easier if you just ignore that type of white noise, unless you are a sadist. Rex Apr 2015 #185

They're just trying to cut off debate by discrediting the opposition out of hand Populist_Prole Apr 2015 #186

It's not all most Democrats want to know. There is overwhelming opposition to this sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #190

Oh, please. lovemydog Apr 2015 #195

This isn't anything new JonLP24 Apr 2015 #197

Now, now, your leaders always know what's best for Zorra Apr 2015 #202

I'm stealing this ... sendero Apr 2015 #210