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True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
Sat May 9, 2015, 05:06 AM May 2015

Censorship of hate speech is an unconditional surrender to hate. [View all]

Hatred is an emotion that happens to human beings, and like all emotions it has exactly the power over us that we allow it to have. Do you think men like Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. chose the path of peace and justice because they had no hate in their hearts, or because some authority would have punished them for it? Quite the opposite: They were both tempted by hate, both could have delivered a message of hate powerfully and persuasively, and in Gandhi's case had plenty of people trying to pull him in that direction, but they chose a better way. They chose it - it wasn't imposed on them by threats from the state.

History is brimming with examples of the folly of trying to legislate the human heart, not least the fact that the most vehement and consistent advocates of political censorship are precisely those who want to protect lies from the truth. How is "hate speech" not an infinitely corruptible concept as a legal standard? Gandhi said the British were oppressing Indians - there you go, "hate speech," calling the British oppressors. Saying that proponents of segregation were bigots - "hate speech," they frequently insisted. Please, Mr. Government Man, Sir, tell me what is and is not true, and punish me for saying anything you deem to be outside that box.

How many more people on the streets of Baltimore would have been arrested if the police had the authority to judge the moral content of signs and chanted slogans? How about anywhere, ever? Oh, some jerk has a picture of a pig eating donuts - HATE SPEECH! Arrest him! And of course since they now have the power to do that, resistance to the arrest becomes grounds for violence. At that point it's just a short hop, skip, and jump to summary execution because someone "disrespected" authority on the streets - a common enough problem without giving it the imprimatur of defending morality.

The evil inherent in political censorship is so profound I have to question the motives, if not the sanity, of anyone who sees it as a valid option - let alone one that serves the values of liberal democracy. At absolute best, it is an admission of a crippled society so completely infested with hate and so incapable of rational self-governance that it needs the medical device of such methods to survive at all. And since the case I'm thinking about when I say that is Germany, whose brief initial experiment with democracy led to genocide and global war costing on order of 50 million lives within a couple of decades, any comparison with the United States and its problems is so irrational that it must be driven by some level of hateful viewpoint itself.

The long and short of it is that advocating de jure censorship of hate speech is an authoritarian hypocrisy by people who would loudly denounce any such imposition against their own expressions - even if they legitimately rose to the level of hate speech by rational standadrs - while passionately seeking to wield that power against others. This is just common sense, and basic moral foundation stuff to a liberal and progressive mind: You don't demand to limit other people in ways that you yourself are not willing to be limited, and I for one have no intention of surrendering my liberty and human autonomy for the sake of anyone else's feelings.

I do not surrender my weapons of fact, logic, argument, and yes passion. If I hate something or someone, and I allow that emotion to overtake my reason in how I express opinions, then I am in error - certainly not a criminal. And if I am genuinely in error, then someone else can show me that error through conversation, and either (a)persuade me toward a more constructive viewpoint, or (b)discredit me as someone who does not listen to reason, and whose views should not be influential.

This is so fundamental to basic Enlightenment concepts of liberty and ethics that I shouldn't even have to argue for them. They should be obvious to any remotely decent and intelligent person. But that doesn't mean I would censor those who advocate censorship: Because unlike them, I can win arguments.

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k&r beam me up scottie May 2015 #1
I oppose criminalizing hate speech, but cali May 2015 #2
Should the RCC/Westboro Baptists be held responsible for anti-lgbt hate crimes? beam me up scottie May 2015 #3
As you know, any mention of Phelps or the Pope sends this crew packing, she will never even try Bluenorthwest May 2015 #33
If a muslim kills someone and says the Koran commanded it would you ban the Koran CBGLuthier May 2015 #4
Every power is double-edged. True Blue Door May 2015 #5
Using your logic they should be rounding up the clerics and other Islamic scholars Lee-Lee May 2015 #27
The people guilty are the people who shot people with guns. Shoulders of Giants May 2015 #38
Imminence. Incitement isn't what many are thinking it is. n/t X_Digger May 2015 #34
Do you consider being free to use a city's bus service to promote hate "censorship"? Scootaloo May 2015 #6
Everyone has an equal right to the public space. True Blue Door May 2015 #7
Do you believe being free to put ads on buses constitutes censorship, or not? Scootaloo May 2015 #8
Only if the limits are imposed by law and are politically selective. True Blue Door May 2015 #10
So no, Gellar is not being censored. Scootaloo May 2015 #11
. beam me up scottie May 2015 #13
No one is being censored there, are they? No Free speech is being infringed, is it? Scootaloo May 2015 #15
I posted a link to an op re: banning hate speech so you'd know what inspired the op. beam me up scottie May 2015 #16
In response to me asking where someone was being censored Scootaloo May 2015 #18
No, they're free to express their extremely wrong-headed ideas about the 1st Amendment. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #20
I didn't alert on that op, did you? beam me up scottie May 2015 #21
No, not me. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #24
Agreed. Like people who imagine censorship where there is none Scootaloo May 2015 #25
The topic of criminalizing hate speech was raised earlier. True Blue Door May 2015 #14
"As for your Putin-esque attempts to Godwinize liberalism" Scootaloo May 2015 #17
Floating the specter of Nazism doesn't work when the main reason it failed True Blue Door May 2015 #26
You're the one raising naziism first off Scootaloo May 2015 #29
I mentioned Nazism to deflate it as an argument I knew someone like you would raise. True Blue Door May 2015 #32
Great post about the Weimar constitution Pooka Fey May 2015 #39
Scholars have written volumes on the subject, there are hours of documentary footage available Pooka Fey May 2015 #37
I'm aware of the history, and of people's attempts to rewrite it for ideological purposes. True Blue Door May 2015 #41
Let me analyse just one sentence of your above post, because I only have 45 minutes. Pooka Fey May 2015 #42
France had a resistance movement. Germany had a few random people defying Hitler True Blue Door May 2015 #44
Stating that a German Resistance existed does in NO WAY condone or excuse the evil of the 3rd Reich Pooka Fey May 2015 #45
The scholarship on the subject is massive because the need to find humanizing details True Blue Door May 2015 #47
Fine...however without consequences hate speeches lead into actions. vaberella May 2015 #9
All speech has consequences. Not all speech leads to actions. True Blue Door May 2015 #12
I'm not convinced the metro bus system couldnt have other options for regulating ads than Warren DeMontague May 2015 #19
But is it censorship to have those ads? Scootaloo May 2015 #22
Oh ffs. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #23
I try to restrain my pissed-offness for things that are actually happening Scootaloo May 2015 #28
I didn't say she was being censored. Neither did the OP. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #30
Is it? Scootaloo May 2015 #31
I watched Straight Religious people stage hundreds and hundreds of attacks on LGBT funerals while Bluenorthwest May 2015 #36
It's different because it's offensive to religious people, Blue. beam me up scottie May 2015 #46
Uh, hardly, dude. Warren DeMontague May 2015 #43
the sake of argument ellennelle May 2015 #35
I'm aware that rational argument is insufficient, but it is definitely indispensable. True Blue Door May 2015 #40
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