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H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
Mon May 11, 2015, 10:44 PM May 2015

Obama vs Hersh [View all]

As a general rule, I prefer non-violence to violence. Yet, I cannot honestly say that I felt bad when US forces killed Usama bin Laden. I wasn’t happy about it, either.

I did think that it was important for President Obama. Not just because if the mission had failed, the general public would have elected President Willard Romney. But that was part of it.

That he would not tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth when informing the American people does not offend me. No US President is going to make public all aspects of things that, in one way or another, involve “national security.” Nor, for that matter, are informed US intelligence folks. Despite what I might think about the “risk” that bin Laden posed at the time of his death, I would not expect President Obama to tell 100% accurate information at that time -- any more than I would expect an intelligence officer, active or retired, when speaking to a journalist.

This is especially true in regards to any action that involves relations with one or more other nations. Friends or enemies. More so in a volatile region of the world. That would simply be unrealistic.

The operation to kill Usama bin Laden clearly involved, directly and indirectly, numerous individuals. Both American and foreign people. What most of these knew was limited by the compartmentalization of such operations. Hence, if two dozen of these people were to honestly say what they knew for sure, we would have exactly twenty-four separate stories. There would be areas where their stories overlapped, and areas where they were distinct.

If each of the two dozen people involved were to fabricate, rather than be totally honest, that would result in their stories being far different than the others’. This is the very nature of human communications.

I do not believe that either President Obama or Seymour Hersh, or any of their sources, know everything involved in the planning or execution of the killing of bin Laden. This alone would make it difficult to believe that either was telling the “whole truth.” President Obama could not, even if he really wanted to; Hersh wants to, but can’t -- because he doesn’t know, and can’t know.

I do not believe that the circumstances call for me, or anyone, to identify one as good and honest, and the other a fool or liar.

Peace,
H2O Man

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Obama vs Hersh [View all] H2O Man May 2015 OP
I have always been, and will always be, against trophy hunting. scarletwoman May 2015 #1
You are right. H2O Man May 2015 #3
The idea of Usama as a trophy is interesting. panader0 May 2015 #7
"....a wishful end to the evil we helped create. KoKo May 2015 #44
I totally agree. Blue_In_AK May 2015 #19
Also very pragmatic. Maedhros May 2015 #51
k&r... spanone May 2015 #2
Thank you! H2O Man May 2015 #4
I agree with you on so many things but here? Governments are in the business of lying... Luminous Animal May 2015 #5
Right. H2O Man May 2015 #6
We do ourselves a great disservice when we excuse yellow journalism of any stripe. OilemFirchen May 2015 #18
Thank you, OilemF. you have the most compelling post on here. Cha May 2015 #21
Perhaps Hentoff was miffed when fired by the Village Voice. OilemFirchen May 2015 #41
Interesting. H2O Man May 2015 #22
Everytime I see violence empoyed in the world, I know you are happy. And here you are goading me Bluenorthwest May 2015 #33
Well all that would be more than acceptable, if we were talking about yellow journalism. sabrina 1 May 2015 #34
I'll thank you not to lecture me about journalism. OilemFirchen May 2015 #35
I refrained from asking YOU not to lecture US about journalism. But back atcha .. and when you do sabrina 1 May 2015 #37
Using a single unnamed source with no known bonafides... OilemFirchen May 2015 #43
Why do you think Bin Laden was in that house, and what do you think of what sabrina 1 May 2015 #45
"Does Hersh think journalists should use this level of sourcing to, say, start a stupid war?.." Cha May 2015 #70
Ah yes ... Mr Naval Intelligence Bob Woodward jakeXT May 2015 #20
Right. H2O Man May 2015 #23
Conspiracy theories always attract those who are suspicious by nature. Major Hogwash May 2015 #72
Thank you, Sir. Your words sum it up. n/t jaysunb May 2015 #8
Thank you. H2O Man May 2015 #10
You're right. Thanks, my friend. nt babylonsister May 2015 #9
Thanks, Buddy. H2O Man May 2015 #11
I guess I'm old fashioned, or maybe a creature of a future where the human race has sabrina 1 May 2015 #12
From Osama bin Laden to Anwar Al-Awlaki (and Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki). OnyxCollie May 2015 #13
"Due process" is now almost as quaint and obsoete as those Geneva Conentions. We need to KingCharlemagne May 2015 #16
Very good. H2O Man May 2015 #24
The reason why forums like this are not NOW fertile ground to discuss Bin Laden sabrina 1 May 2015 #46
Interesting. H2O Man May 2015 #49
I've read a little about OBL back when he was a topic of conversation. It's true that it's almost sabrina 1 May 2015 #50
Very good. H2O Man May 2015 #60
Well, the closest comparison to Bin Laden I can make, would be Lord Edward Fitzgerald, from a sabrina 1 May 2015 #61
Robert Emmet H2O Man May 2015 #62
Because you raise H2O Man May 2015 #63
It makes sense to accept that people and events are as they are. We can't really do otherwise. sabrina 1 May 2015 #77
Mixing of doctrine: H2O Man May 2015 #66
due process is still the law of the land questionseverything May 2015 #53
Only for the little people! We have a two tiered legal system now. sabrina 1 May 2015 #55
i agree the system now has two tiers questionseverything May 2015 #56
I trust Obama 1000x more than I trust Hersh mwrguy May 2015 #14
Well, I'm sure people said that about Nixon and many other leaders too. If it were all sabrina 1 May 2015 #26
Very good! H2O Man May 2015 #30
Wow Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2015 #36
How so? sabrina 1 May 2015 #39
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man May 2015 #48
Very good. H2O Man May 2015 #29
Reinforcing your point is this: MBS May 2015 #42
correct G_j May 2015 #15
Thank you. H2O Man May 2015 #31
The Bin Laden killing definitely has the feel of a clean-up operation. [n/t] Maedhros May 2015 #52
I personally would have preferred to see Bin laden taken alive, tried, sentenced and imprisoned... Spider Jerusalem May 2015 #17
Absolutely. H2O Man May 2015 #32
I just think that no one should ever trust any president, ever. alarimer May 2015 #25
'If these claims were made about the Bush administration, we would elevate Hersh sabrina 1 May 2015 #27
So a German metrology institute runs our leaders? snooper2 May 2015 #38
They do? sabrina 1 May 2015 #40
Interesting points. H2O Man May 2015 #28
I sure as shite don't trust Sy Hersh.. I trust President Obama over that conspiracy theorist with Cha May 2015 #71
beyond assassination (apparently of someone unarmed and surrendering, and now perhaps a MisterP May 2015 #47
Here's what Hersh wrote that makes the Secret Government very, very angry... Octafish May 2015 #54
Very important point. H2O Man May 2015 #58
Absolutely. Octafish May 2015 #64
And just now the CIA has to remind us that Al-Qaeda could bring down a US flight tomorrow jakeXT May 2015 #59
Inside Information is so valuable in fighting terror and in making a buck it can lead to confusion. Octafish May 2015 #65
Very interesting H2O Man May 2015 #68
Reading. Sharing. Discussing. First Amendmenting. Octafish May 2015 #69
One would think that Bin Laden and/or emmbers of family-entourage would have PufPuf23 May 2015 #57
I agree. H2O Man May 2015 #67
Great points, H20 Man, and well-stated. lovemydog May 2015 #73
Very good points. H2O Man May 2015 #74
Thank you sir. lovemydog May 2015 #75
K&R. I always appreciate your precise, rational posts. It was a link to one of your posts in June tblue37 May 2015 #76
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