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Number23

(24,544 posts)

234. Good God, is it ever.

Reply to Starry Messenger (Reply #47)

Mon Sep 14, 2015, 01:39 AM

Sep 2015

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No, racism and sexism don't "go both ways" [View all] YoungDemCA Sep 2015 OP

It's nice for you to redefine racism cpwm17 Sep 2015 #1

and it's not nice of you to leave off half of the definition Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #11

The OP was denying the definitions that I posted. cpwm17 Sep 2015 #14

And you didn't address it. You simply edited the dictionary entry to one usage Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #18

That's the same excuse I use when I omit relevant context to validate my own biases too! LanternWaste Sep 2015 #249

The word is properly used with either meaning. Igel Sep 2015 #153

Yes, I'm well aware of how a dictionary works. Gormy Cuss Sep 2015 #195

Isn't it aways fun to read a post where someone tries to explain hughee99 Sep 2015 #13

Sorry, but this is just one of those new 'truisms' that people in echo chambers tell each other. Marr Sep 2015 #2

wrong NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #28

Compelling argument. Marr Sep 2015 #39

So, if I am Asian, and I believe dumbcat Sep 2015 #62

Correct, it is not racism. It is bigotry. Racism is having the power of the collective and govt NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #98

Dictionaries are wrong? dumbcat Sep 2015 #107

It sure is important to some that a black person can be called a racist... NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #108

It sure is important to some dumbcat Sep 2015 #111

An Asian who is part of the ruling class and power can be called a racist, ANYONE who is part NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #113

It's not obvious to me dumbcat Sep 2015 #117

nope NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #119

Yet, I often see OPs titled like "It's time to have a dumbcat Sep 2015 #122

Would you say Japanese treatment of Ainu was racist? Generic Other Sep 2015 #148

Again, I have to disagree with the basic premise dumbcat Sep 2015 #156

Institutional racism is a pattern of action not just a belief Generic Other Sep 2015 #173

I'll agree with the title of that post dumbcat Sep 2015 #175

I see what you are trying to say. I have actually seen jwirr Sep 2015 #177

An excellent point Generic Other Sep 2015 #224

Those who do not have power Shankapotomus Sep 2015 #199

So the following isn't racism? Igel Sep 2015 #157

Wish I could rec your whole post. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #225

This message was self-deleted by its author Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2015 #182

no such thing as a racist black person or sexist woman Doctor_J Sep 2015 #44

Ivory towers pintobean Sep 2015 #46

LOL... yeah- let's all argue to dumb down English and use less precise and meaningful terminology! bettyellen Sep 2015 #188

That's exactly what's going on pintobean Sep 2015 #189

Idiots dumbcat Sep 2015 #63

So you can call me an idiot, but if I did it, i would be hidden, guaranteed. NO, in America a black NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #121

I did not call you an idiot, by any means dumbcat Sep 2015 #127

True Major Nikon Sep 2015 #220

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Sep 2015 #196

that about sums up Snow Leopard Sep 2015 #132

Absolutelt agree. 840high Sep 2015 #172

Well put, and succinct. nt Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #219

No. Android3.14 Sep 2015 #3

Yes, facts are facts, speaketh this WHITE person nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #72

Opinion Android3.14 Sep 2015 #86

I completely agree with you Jason Huh Sep 2015 #4

Feel guilty all you want pintobean Sep 2015 #6

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #32

It really is all about power. JimDandy Sep 2015 #40

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #49

You don't have to force anything on anyone to be racist AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #103

bigotry would describe that MORE accurately- because racism can and often does mean more- bettyellen Sep 2015 #193

right NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #30

So if a white person were attacked by non-whites for being white that wouldn't be racism? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #94

bigotry, because in the USA, non-whites suffer from being in a lower power position nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #106

Seems a distinction without a difference -- particularly to the victim. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #211

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #144

+1 nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #165

+1 Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #192

Not only that... OneGrassRoot Sep 2015 #203

I agree that that is the way it is used, almost always. Chemisse Sep 2015 #142

Well that's part of the problem notadmblnd Sep 2015 #5

midandrist is the opposite of misogynist, not the opposite of sexism. Both misognyists merrily Sep 2015 #12

Funny, I've never liked using gender as a synonym for sex. nt raccoon Sep 2015 #19

I know, right? "Have the two of you had gender yet" just doesn't make it. (no pun intended). merrily Sep 2015 #27

There are tons of other words/phrases you could use. raccoon Sep 2015 #83

Huh? Use for what? The issue was using "sex" as a synonym for "gender." merrily Sep 2015 #91

"Having sex" is a slang term 1939 Sep 2015 #120

"Gender" also describes the equipment with which one is born and is not merrily Sep 2015 #124

I did not say it was the opposite just as bigot is not the opposite of racist notadmblnd Sep 2015 #20

I know what the OP said and what you said. I was not contradicting you or arguing with you. merrily Sep 2015 #24

okay. notadmblnd Sep 2015 #26

Sex is a biological condition based on chromosomes. Gender is a social and psychological tblue37 Sep 2015 #88

Context matters--and informs meaning. "Theory" means one thing in common speech and tblue37 Sep 2015 #102

"Racism" and "bigotry" often get conflated Scootaloo Sep 2015 #7

Perhaps because there is a good amount of overlap. merrily Sep 2015 #16

So do "less" and "fewer." Igel Sep 2015 #162

I wasn't going to join the "argument" Scootaloo Sep 2015 #180

If not dispositive, a dictionary is at least relevant as to what words mean. merrily Sep 2015 #8

folks need to go to the AA forum and ask about racism steve2470 Sep 2015 #9

The meaning of words is a different issue from the suffering of peoples (sic) or white privilege. merrily Sep 2015 #15

See you there, merrily! :) nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #57

No, I don't intrude unless I see something in Latest Threads merrily Sep 2015 #114

Thanks melman Sep 2015 #22

the dictionary is too simplistic steve2470 Sep 2015 #59

right to your off topic thought...sucks is putting it mildly NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #33

yea, sigh steve2470 Sep 2015 #60

Damn Skippy, Steve. MrScorpio Sep 2015 #35

they will be educated steve2470 Sep 2015 #61

You cant, they very badly want to be able to call you a racist. That is all this is about. NoJusticeNoPeace Sep 2015 #110

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #50

How many is 'enough of them' hfojvt Sep 2015 #51

8% wasn't the only ones who passed fugitive slave laws and slave codes BklnDem75 Sep 2015 #70

They may be reaponsible but they are also dead Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #76

way to be generic hfojvt Sep 2015 #87

Silent consent of the majority... BklnDem75 Sep 2015 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Sep 2015 #143

that's really just textbook racism right there hfojvt Sep 2015 #160

LOL! That's creative... nt BklnDem75 Sep 2015 #163

waves, smiles, walks away nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #250

Actually melman Sep 2015 #67

+1000 Bobbie Jo Sep 2015 #128

Institutional or systemic animus works systemically. Personal animus still matters. DirkGently Sep 2015 #10

*mic drop* thread winner. n/t X_Digger Sep 2015 #38

nope, no mic drop, we disagree nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #80

+1 Marr Sep 2015 #41

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #53

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #55

While you're here... Orrex Sep 2015 #58

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #68

Excellent post. (n/t) SMC22307 Sep 2015 #56

Do you honestly think kcr Sep 2015 #149

Right. "Institutional racism" doesn't "go both ways." DirkGently Sep 2015 #155

No one is trying to eliminate it kcr Sep 2015 #158

Yes. It is important to distinguish between the two. DirkGently Sep 2015 #164

Well, I guess people read things differently, because you're wrong. kcr Sep 2015 #169

Well no. Here's what the OP actually said DirkGently Sep 2015 #171

If you're talking about institutional racism and sexism it is. kcr Sep 2015 #262

Completely agree. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #207

If a man suffers discrimination based upon sex, then what should we call it? Orrex Sep 2015 #17

I would just call it sexism Travis_0004 Sep 2015 #21

sexual harassment. notadmblnd Sep 2015 #25

Not all sexual discrimination is sexual harassment gollygee Sep 2015 #93

acceptable.....because it's "rare" or some such silliness ileus Sep 2015 #29

"discrimination" gollygee Sep 2015 #92

You're right, it doesn't...except when it does. ileus Sep 2015 #23

please elaborate in great detail, thank you in advance nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #109

It does go both ways. But in vastly different amounts and with different effects. Brickbat Sep 2015 #31

You are pretty clearly wrong mythology Sep 2015 #34

Yes, it does. Sorry to disappoint. <n/t> Shandris Sep 2015 #36

You're confusing terms. Discrimination requires a power imbalance. Not racism or sexism. Xithras Sep 2015 #37

Excellent post. Kaleva Sep 2015 #42

I know plenty of racist and sexist people on both sides... bobclark86 Sep 2015 #43

Power and racism/sexism have everything to do with each other YoungDemCA Sep 2015 #105

Anybody can be racist bobclark86 Sep 2015 #226

Why would't you choose to be more accurate and describe it as bigotry when it fits better? bettyellen Sep 2015 #194

They're conflating racism with prejudice Warpy Sep 2015 #45

Doesn't "ism" imply systems -- ideological, political, etc? OneGrassRoot Sep 2015 #48

This is going pretty predicably. NT. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #47

yep steve2470 Sep 2015 #65

I almost regret posting the OP. YoungDemCA Sep 2015 #97

To show what this place has become. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #99

I guess YoungDemCA Sep 2015 #101

The replies illustrate why you were absolutely RIGHT in starting this thread! dzhuboi Sep 2015 #233

because you care :) nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #100

... OneGrassRoot Sep 2015 #123

I'm stunned, totally, over the reactions here. Lyric Sep 2015 #181

I lay the blame at the TOS. The Admins support this kind of horizonal interpretation of racism. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #185

If they concede this, they can't say the other side is racist and sexist too. KitSileya Sep 2015 #235

Very well said! johnp3907 Sep 2015 #251

Good God, is it ever. Number23 Sep 2015 #234

Unreal, isn't it? Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #240

On DU it's just about anyone who doesn't support a favorite candidate RandySF Sep 2015 #52

What is the definition of racism you're using? nt RedCappedBandit Sep 2015 #54

If white supremacy is a thing in this country... StrongBad Sep 2015 #64

White people still run the country, look at Congress and SCOTUS steve2470 Sep 2015 #71

"Running the country" does not equal supremacy StrongBad Sep 2015 #74

oh give me a break, we white folks run this country and make sure tons of blacks get locked up steve2470 Sep 2015 #75

And yet asians outperform us StrongBad Sep 2015 #77

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #78

The "model minority" myth gollygee Sep 2015 #89

Except it's not a myth StrongBad Sep 2015 #166

If I believe in Asian supremacy, that's not racist? dumbcat Sep 2015 #66

Racism would be that belief plus the power to do something with it gollygee Sep 2015 #90

So you agree that the belief itself is not racism? dumbcat Sep 2015 #95

Dictionaries are written by the people in power gollygee Sep 2015 #96

Dictionaries are written by linguists AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #112

the GROUP in power gollygee Sep 2015 #115

Linguists aren't in power AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #116

Most are white and most are male and most are men gollygee Sep 2015 #118

Link to your bizarre claim AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #125

Every system and institution in the US is infected with racism. gollygee Sep 2015 #126

Your link says nothing about linguistics AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #129

Dictionaries are made by groups of people within a structure and within institutions gollygee Sep 2015 #130

Linguists aren't politicians AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #133

Holy crap gollygee Sep 2015 #135

That's because AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #136

So if a Spanish linguist in a Spanish country defined racism as a belief StrongBad Sep 2015 #174

And I believe etomologists kiva Sep 2015 #178

Now this makes sense. Chemisse Sep 2015 #159

yes, they are all more accurate terms used because there are important distinctions when racism is bettyellen Sep 2015 #187

Straights who are bigoted against LGBT have power. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #213

So then there should be a word for it. Chemisse Sep 2015 #237

Well bigotry with societal power gollygee Sep 2015 #238

Of course it can and does go both ways. Any individual can be racist or sexist. uppityperson Sep 2015 #69

So when the Japanese killed most of my dad's family in WWII calling them an "inferior race".... Lee-Lee Sep 2015 #73

of course what they did was racist steve2470 Sep 2015 #79

The OP was not restricted to the USA dumbcat Sep 2015 #81

I think it's rather obvious. DU has its servers based in the USA... steve2470 Sep 2015 #82

I think it's not obvious. dumbcat Sep 2015 #85

"Democratic Undgerground" kcr Sep 2015 #139

And nothing else is ever discussed dumbcat Sep 2015 #140

No. And I don't believe that was ever the point n/t kcr Sep 2015 #141

Then what was your point? dumbcat Sep 2015 #145

That it isn't true that it isn't obviously a website with an American focus kcr Sep 2015 #146

And we never talk about other countries, European issues dumbcat Sep 2015 #147

Nooooooo kcr Sep 2015 #150

not on the same level. if someone asked ergo do you want as president JI7 Sep 2015 #151

Actually, I think it was originally meant to be "democratic" as in "democracy" Art_from_Ark Sep 2015 #236

My point stands kcr Sep 2015 #263

Ouch. Harsh. Chemisse Sep 2015 #161

You're being called upon to amend your OP to precise legal standards steve2470 Sep 2015 #84

mostly by those who want to distract JI7 Sep 2015 #152

you nailed it nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #154

Who called on the OP to amend the OP? dumbcat Sep 2015 #170

It's a derailing tactic. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #167

yep nt steve2470 Sep 2015 #168

It can, it is rare as hell with whites mind you nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #104

here comes the whitesplaining, as predictable as sunrise mwrguy Sep 2015 #131

Nice. n/t phylny Sep 2015 #200

So is it your position TeddyR Sep 2015 #134

Well said kcr Sep 2015 #137

I understand d_r Sep 2015 #176

So white people as a group are morally inferior to POC Bok_Tukalo Sep 2015 #179

Wow- where did that nonsense come from? bettyellen Sep 2015 #190

The OP. The claim is made that POC cannot be racist yet white people can Bok_Tukalo Sep 2015 #197

you understand that bigotry would be a MUCH more accurate term when there are no systemic effects? bettyellen Sep 2015 #198

And yet bias based on things other than race are often fully supported by systems and institutions Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #209

nope, the definition for racism has already broadened to mean what it does today. That other words bettyellen Sep 2015 #212

LGBT are not beside the point, and as long as the bigotry of straight people is enforced against us Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #215

I never said they were. And so, stopped reading after I read that bullshit. Try honest conversations bettyellen Sep 2015 #217

I am talking about this heterocentric definition of bigotry you are foisting. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #221

I don't get why you'd like to limit the meaning of words- or ascribe motives to those who use them bettyellen Sep 2015 #223

You have a very good point. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #228

The language already has a means of expressing the idea of institutionalized racism. Marr Sep 2015 #242

wow...just wow steve2470 Sep 2015 #232

This is both a) settled and b) bullshit. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #183

This again? YoungDemCA Sep 2015 #186

Sure, because if one disagrees with subliterate definitions, one MUST be anti-feminist Major Nikon Sep 2015 #222

A productive discussion about institutional racism (or sexism) could be had. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #227

I understand the definition now. Doesn't that open the jwirr Sep 2015 #184

I have two thoughts gollygee Sep 2015 #191

Thank you. That really adds to the definition. And it jwirr Sep 2015 #201

I did notice something. RandySF Sep 2015 #202

Because Bernie is more of a feminist than Hillary and done more for Minorities than the President, orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #205

Not that being critical of the President or Hillary would be perceived as either, Right ?? Bullshit orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #204

Cornell West? RandySF Sep 2015 #206

Reread what he said. What he really said. jwirr Sep 2015 #241

I Think the objective is Dismissal of Bernie, more than understanding Cornel . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #248

Who has done more for African Americans than Barry & Hillary put together, yeah Cornel West . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #247

Yeah, it's a lot more campaign-oriented than people want to admit. Marr Sep 2015 #244

This whole "collective guilt" line of thinking is a scam. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #208

^^ THIS ^^ jonno99 Sep 2015 #229

It quickly becomes absurd. Marr Sep 2015 #245

This whole "collective guilt" line of thinking just makes the problem worse XemaSab Sep 2015 #210

Exactly. Waiting For Everyman Sep 2015 #214

+1000 nt raouldukelives Sep 2015 #257

Should be an OP. RiffRandell Sep 2015 #231

Sure, that's why civil rights laws only go one way Major Nikon Sep 2015 #216

How super duper convenient! TipTok Sep 2015 #218

This painfully disingenuous claim... MellowDem Sep 2015 #230

Yes--never forget the 'power" part of the equation n/g eridani Sep 2015 #239

Prejudice is a human condition RandySF Sep 2015 #243

No. Disagree. LeftOfWest Sep 2015 #254

Shouldn't this be posted in the White Privilege forum? Democat Sep 2015 #246

What about majority minority cities? MichMan Sep 2015 #252

This message was self-deleted by its author gobears10 Sep 2015 #253

They go whichever direction opportunity presents itself One_Life_To_Give Sep 2015 #255

Ben Carson is a black man who could be president Democat Sep 2015 #256

What should be done about this problem? kcr Sep 2015 #261

Minority and disadvantaged individuals can be racist but RACISM is institutional KittyWampus Sep 2015 #258

Depends on the power balance Prism Sep 2015 #259

Oh look... romanic Sep 2015 #260

A matter of power and position, and history. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #264