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cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
43. In the 20th Century there was a lot of killing by a lot of different groups.
Thu Nov 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Nov 2015

Muslims didn't come close to standing out as more brutal than other groups:

If we're going to be pointing fingers of blame for the savageness of the Century -- and you know you want to -- raw numbers are probably not enough. There have been plenty of episodes of concentrated brutality that don't show up on the list above simply because the affected population is so small. Meanwhile, a major reason that Russia and China stand so prominently at the top of the list is that they have so many potential victims to begin with. Therefore, I've taken all the episodes of mass killing of the 20th Century and divided them by the population of the country that suffered the losses.

The 25 highest percentages of national populations killed during periods of mass brutality (20th Century):



If you look carefully at the chart with the intention of determining which race, religion or ideology has been the most brutal, you'll see a pattern emerge. It's quite a startling pattern, so I'd rather you find it by yourself. Go back and take a second look. I'll meet you at the next paragraph after I explain that, honestly, I did not manipulate the data. I simply took the most likely death toll (military and civilian) among the natives of each country (such as all the South Vietnamese -- ARVN soldiers, civilians and Viet Cong -- who were killed in the Vietnam War), and divided it by the population of that country (prewar). I didn't take, say, only the military dead, or only the victims of genocide. I didn't arbitrarily decide to split one horror into two in order to make each seem smaller (the only borderline case is that I calculated the Russians dead from WW2 and Stalin separately. A judgement call.), or eliminate countries of a certain size. No, I had no predetermined point to prove. I did the math and let the chips fall where they would. (Here are the raw numbers if you want to check behind me.)

That's why I was so startled to discover that there is absolutely no pattern to the chart. If I had simply picked 25 countries out of a hat, I could not have gotten a more diverse spread than we've got here. We've got rich countries and poor countries; industrial and agrarian; big and small. We've got people of all colors -- white, black, yellow and brown -- widely represented among both the slaughterers and the slaughterees. We've got Christians, Moslems, Buddhists and Atheists all butchering one another in the name of their various gods or lack thereof. Among the perpetrators, we've got political leanings of the left, right and middle; some are monarchies; some are dictatorships and some are even democracies. We've got innocent victims invaded by big, bad neighbors, and we've got plenty of countries who brought it on themselves, sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind. Go on -- take a third look. Find any type of country that is not represented among the agents of a major blooding, and probably the only reason for that is that there aren't that many countries in that category to begin with (There are no Hindu or Jewish countries on the chart, but then, there's only one of each on the whole planet, and they're both waiting in the wings among the next 25.).

In a way, it's rather disheartening to realize that we can't smugly blame the brutality of the century on the Communists, or the imperialists, or the Moslem fundamentalists, or the godless. Every major category of human has done it's share to boost the body count, so replacing, say, Moslem rulers with Christian rulers, or white rulers with black rulers, is not going to change it at all.
Where does female genital mutilation fall on that metric? NickB79 Nov 2015 #1
FGM is a regional practice in north and east Africa, not a Muslim practice KamaAina Nov 2015 #3
Not practiced by the majority of Muslims. Crunchy Frog Nov 2015 #4
yeah it's just a couple million girls a year no big deal right? snooper2 Nov 2015 #61
a ringing endorsement: "my" religion is less murderous than "your" religion lol (not referring to msongs Nov 2015 #2
We'll just have to wait to see what kind of tally they can run up, then. maxsolomon Nov 2015 #5
Because Maher opened his yap most recently. KamaAina Nov 2015 #6
And he also has a weekly TV show upon which BuelahWitch Nov 2015 #27
Exactly! cpwm17 Nov 2015 #7
Anyone have a link to that actual study? Lee-Lee Nov 2015 #22
Here's more I found from the author of the study cpwm17 Nov 2015 #25
The fact that he hasn't published his work anywhere for people to review makes me question more Lee-Lee Nov 2015 #49
The ongoing 'Othering' of Muslims is calculated. Maedhros Nov 2015 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Nov 2015 #13
I also refuse to take part in it BuelahWitch Nov 2015 #28
Good post. I don't ignore, though very often want to, Hortensis Nov 2015 #40
It's mostly evangelical atheists trying to prove how smart they are by insulting others. Maedhros Nov 2015 #41
Oh, those. Yes, their extreme bigotry scares me, actually, Hortensis Nov 2015 #42
I agree and I'm an atheist also. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #50
That's not enirely true. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #54
I believe what you post. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #57
We're mostly on the same page. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #58
Well, at least you've found a way to make yourself feel superior... cleanhippie Nov 2015 #52
+1! 2naSalit Nov 2015 #59
knr Douglas Carpenter Nov 2015 #9
It's nice to see that you're still posting. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #10
Yeah. Because World War One and Two were wars that occurred due to religion. linuxman Nov 2015 #11
As long as people believe they are fighting for an invisible man in the sky, we're screwed NightWatcher Nov 2015 #12
I'm the first to realize we often rationalize many imaginary things as more tangible... LanternWaste Nov 2015 #24
Militarism, mutual defense alliances and imperialism had a lot to do with many of those wars. herding cats Nov 2015 #14
It depends on definition and motivation. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #15
WWI and WWII are violence by mostly Christians cpwm17 Nov 2015 #18
"WWII are violence by mostly Christian" No.. EX500rider Nov 2015 #29
Germany is a Christian nation, the same with Italy. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #31
And yet more Shendao Chinese were killed by Shinto Japanese EX500rider Nov 2015 #32
In the 20th Century there was a lot of killing by a lot of different groups. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #43
This is a good point. closeupready Nov 2015 #37
I always thought it was a mistake to go back into Iraq. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #38
You're not scaring anyone with this. You must not be a republican. pampango Nov 2015 #16
This is so fucking deceitful-- and when it's begun with an accusation of bigotry, it's particularly Marr Nov 2015 #17
Nobody that supports violence against Muslims, Netanyahu and his aggressive wars, cpwm17 Nov 2015 #19
I watch Real Time almost every week maxsolomon Nov 2015 #26
I haven't had access to cable in years. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #30
when was this? maxsolomon Nov 2015 #39
I haven't seen his show in the last eight years or so . cpwm17 Nov 2015 #48
because she's left the faith she doesn't get to claim it culturally? maxsolomon Nov 2015 #60
Maher is an Islamophobic bigot. closeupready Nov 2015 #20
The fact is that gays, women... Marr Nov 2015 #23
Bigotry is about being unfair to religious minorities, not just sexual minorities. closeupready Nov 2015 #33
Well stated. nt el_bryanto Nov 2015 #34
Thanks. closeupready Nov 2015 #35
And where would your evidence be leftynyc Nov 2015 #53
How Iran Solved Its Gay Marriage Problem snooper2 Nov 2015 #62
... closeupready Nov 2015 #63
You are spot on. katsy Nov 2015 #36
Hear, hear! smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #56
Exactly. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #55
The problem comes from toppling secular regimes and supporting fundamentalist regimes and rebels. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #21
I would venture to suggest that a gay couple holding hands would be safer in Dublin Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #44
I would venture to suggest that it's safer to doubt god in Dublin Yorktown Nov 2015 #45
Probably most of those activities are also safer in Vatican City Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #46
I don't care for Christianity, but they don't chop hands Yorktown Nov 2015 #47
Currently, Islam inspires the most terrorism... MellowDem Nov 2015 #51
Good post here Go Vols Nov 2015 #64
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