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maxsolomon

(35,338 posts)

82. what is the proper way to deal with gish galloping hypotheticals

Reply to sibelian (Reply #80)

Thu Dec 3, 2015, 07:17 PM

Dec 2015

in your learned opinion?

and use big words. I can look them up.

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The gigantic logic failure of gun confiscating [View all] LittleBlue Dec 2015 OP

I thought the gun enthusiasts all claim they are law abiding citizens? etherealtruth Dec 2015 #1

I'm not talking about what gun fanatics claim LittleBlue Dec 2015 #3

I am coming from the point of the contradiction coming from them etherealtruth Dec 2015 #4

Start with ammo Politicalboi Dec 2015 #66

Laws against ammo have been ruled unconstintutional. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #67

I'm sure the NRA had something to do with that. bkkyosemite Dec 2015 #176

No, the Bill of Rights had something to do with that... pipoman Dec 2015 #178

The case law that I am thinking of came Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #180

The gigantic logic failure here... gcomeau Dec 2015 #2

Have you missed the last year? LittleBlue Dec 2015 #5

Nope. gcomeau Dec 2015 #6

...heh-heh...I think littleblue is addressing a Real issue about controller dialog... Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #263

Complete confiscation will likely require a couple of decades; but it is well worth it. LonePirate Dec 2015 #7

Confiscation will never happen TeddyR Dec 2015 #8

There is a poll today here on DU where the partial and full confiscation numbers are about 60%. LonePirate Dec 2015 #11

I would never underestimate how much the rest of DU wants guns gone. cherokeeprogressive Dec 2015 #78

I certainly agree that DU does not represent the nation as a whole. DU is merely a trendsetter. LonePirate Dec 2015 #88

Can you name one for me? cherokeeprogressive Dec 2015 #92

Here are a couple off the top of my head. LonePirate Dec 2015 #100

You do realize that DU is a TERRIBLE predictor of national trends, right? Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #196

Yes it will happen Abouttime Dec 2015 #14

So first TeddyR Dec 2015 #57

I don't know which Democratic president you think will stick his/her neck out that far tularetom Dec 2015 #98

If you did those things, people would indeed line up. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #201

Mmm... reporting on the neighbors for a victimless offense against the state.. TipTok Dec 2015 #10

So you support citizens possessing illegal items that endanger the lives of their neighbors? LonePirate Dec 2015 #13

How exactly are they endangering the lives of their neighbors? TipTok Dec 2015 #19

How does the neighbor know if it is safely locked away? What if the neighbor's kids play there? LonePirate Dec 2015 #23

The risk is actually pretty reasonable... TipTok Dec 2015 #27

The cure - saving just 1 life - makes it far more important than the epidemic of gun violence. LonePirate Dec 2015 #29

Ahh.. Just one life... TipTok Dec 2015 #40

"The cure - saving just 1 life - makes it far more important than...." EX500rider Dec 2015 #202

I am all for that! FrodosPet Dec 2015 #234

Your solution is a lot worse, GGJohn Dec 2015 #233

Confiscation is a "solution" that would kill exponentially more than it saves. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #240

Banning abortion lancer78 Dec 2015 #264

Way to grossly understate the number of deaths from guns mythology Dec 2015 #48

They provide no good to society... TipTok Dec 2015 #50

The gundamentalists only care about guns. Nothing else matters - not even their fellow mankind. LonePirate Dec 2015 #51

You are actually wrong TeddyR Dec 2015 #62

Fact failure. In 2013 in the U.S., 33,636 deaths from firearms. 10.6 deaths per 100,000. valerief Dec 2015 #49

I was talking about mass shootings since that is what seems to be driving this particular tizzy... TipTok Dec 2015 #52

But people get killed individually by guns, too. Even moreso than in valerief Dec 2015 #53

Which control measures would that be...? TipTok Dec 2015 #65

You're guilty of adverbitis. valerief Dec 2015 #198

You can't claim all of the suicide deaths exboyfil Dec 2015 #73

And could be you. valerief Dec 2015 #199

Some measures would. But all the focus on "assault weapons" and large magazines mostly wouldn't. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #197

Of which 2/3rd's was suicides. GGJohn Dec 2015 #115

So you support Soviet style block wardens? eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #114

Sounds more like the Stasi's "Inoffizieller Mitarbeiter" to me: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #182

A 75 year old gun nut.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #22

My money is on the LEOs when it comes to a showdown with 75 yo George the Gun Nut LonePirate Dec 2015 #25

You are pretending again.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #28

If the local PD won't do it, call in the military. MillennialDem Dec 2015 #31

So....Same thing applies their.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #32

Give me a tank and I'll do it. Come out gramps or you get a 105 mm high explosive round MillennialDem Dec 2015 #35

Come on out! TipTok Dec 2015 #41

It sounds like you're the homicidal maniac here. appal_jack Dec 2015 #46

Sorta of shocking how violent gun control advocates truly are.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #77

Far less insane than the gun nuts. Just trying to make the country a better place - while MillennialDem Dec 2015 #104

Why? We are not the police, I have not stood by.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #105

Not outside the mainstream for my age. And I've never wrecked my car or hit anyone drag racing, why MillennialDem Dec 2015 #111

Yet here you are advocating the same exact thing. GGJohn Dec 2015 #119

So this is your fantasy then? cherokeeprogressive Dec 2015 #84

So you're for killing fellow Americans who are refusing to obey GGJohn Dec 2015 #118

You and your attitude is far more dangerous than 75 year old George, GGJohn Dec 2015 #235

Wow... darkangel218 Dec 2015 #251

Law enforcement will enforce the laws or lose their jobs Abouttime Dec 2015 #42

Or at very least will keep them in their homes and won't dare take them outside. That alone is MillennialDem Dec 2015 #43

See post #117. GGJohn Dec 2015 #121

I think you're utterly mistaken. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #186

Have you paid attention to what LE actually thinks? Lee-Lee Dec 2015 #192

Well for one thing, that's a whole 'nother constitutional issue. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #55

The military as an institution TeddyR Dec 2015 #70

I'm not sure what rural community you live in but the urban LEOs want guns gone. LonePirate Dec 2015 #33

So, your going to send Richmond cops, virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #38

Faced with the consequences Abouttime Dec 2015 #45

Let me answer that ... virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #47

Couldn't have said it better. Waldorf Dec 2015 #113

If you truly believe this nonsense, GGJohn Dec 2015 #123

"Crime would plummet..." EX500rider Dec 2015 #203

When criminals are disarmed? GGJohn Dec 2015 #237

Archery would be ok though, right? FrodosPet Dec 2015 #239

I live in a pretty big city... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #58

Wrong. GGJohn Dec 2015 #122

As someone who was a rural deputy you make me laugh Lee-Lee Dec 2015 #193

What makes you think LE will enforce such a ban and confiscation? GGJohn Dec 2015 #117

Why? Abouttime Dec 2015 #158

Why? GGJohn Dec 2015 #159

The so called 'rights' in the second amendment are tearing our country apart Abouttime Dec 2015 #162

You can call it a so called right all you want, GGJohn Dec 2015 #163

Twenty years ago Abouttime Dec 2015 #166

... GGJohn Dec 2015 #168

Cute Abouttime Dec 2015 #181

"Another gun nut's spouse or neighbor may anonymously report them for confiscation. Social and peer Brickbat Dec 2015 #128

Oh, just wait til you get further down the thread. Sissyk Dec 2015 #141

That's part of the appeal to the control crowd... TipTok Dec 2015 #9

Salivating? I think it's more surprise - to be told repeatedly jmg257 Dec 2015 #18

People aren't the sheep you describe them to be... TipTok Dec 2015 #20

I feel absolutely no need to obey laws against the US Bill of Rights.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #30

Who decides what is constitutional in your world? upaloopa Dec 2015 #37

Not you. EOM virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #39

Once we repeal the 2A, it's no longer part of the Bill of Rights LonePirate Dec 2015 #54

So.... virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #56

You sound exactly like the type of person who shouldn't possess a gun. LonePirate Dec 2015 #59

I'm not the one fixated on my firearms.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #61

When we finally enact bans and confiscations, you can turn them over or go to jail. Your choice. LonePirate Dec 2015 #63

I will do neither.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #69

How surprising! A gunner who supports violence. Nothing matters except guns, huh? LonePirate Dec 2015 #72

You are the ones with the gleam in your eye... TipTok Dec 2015 #103

Nope, I do not, where do you get that from? virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #109

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #195

Is this why you feel you are above treestar Dec 2015 #204

It simple.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #210

Repealing the Second Amendment TeddyR Dec 2015 #68

Repeal is a good 30-50 years away, barring a major shift. But you underestimate young Americans. LonePirate Dec 2015 #81

I was born in 69 TeddyR Dec 2015 #99

My grand sons enjoy shooting and hunting. Hangingon Dec 2015 #208

Don't forget Arizona, my state. GGJohn Dec 2015 #125

"Once we repeal the 2A, it's no longer part of the Bill of Rights" GGJohn Dec 2015 #124

That is wrong lancer78 Dec 2015 #265

Good luck getting state laws past an explicit Constitutional ban on them. LonePirate Dec 2015 #266

you suggested lancer78 Dec 2015 #267

Yep the Gun-Grabbing Brown Shirts Elmergantry Dec 2015 #101

Your feewings sound hurt, or is it your gun's feewings that are hurt? maxsolomon Dec 2015 #12

I own one gun and rarely ever fire it LittleBlue Dec 2015 #15

What a magnificent counter-argument, I can feel myself getting smarter reading every word. sibelian Dec 2015 #80

what is the proper way to deal with gish galloping hypotheticals maxsolomon Dec 2015 #82

Gallop along, my dear! sibelian Dec 2015 #91

Well dang, that's it gratuitous Dec 2015 #16

So it's your position Crunchy Frog Dec 2015 #17

It isn't my position at all LittleBlue Dec 2015 #21

Gun Control Yes. Confiscation No. Dirty Socialist Dec 2015 #24

BAN manufacture, sales and importation reddread Dec 2015 #190

We need at least a half million more police officers for this job then FrodosPet Dec 2015 #241

it cant be done. it cannot be done. but you can not condone, and laws set the tone reddread Dec 2015 #243

Well, that would quickly sort out the real law abiding citizens from the criminals, wouldn't it? nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2015 #26

Just like marijuana legalization.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #34

How much bigger do you want the prison population in the US to get? sibelian Dec 2015 #86

Not only that, but people who want guns will still get them. MindPilot Dec 2015 #36

"you think they won't violently resist giving up their arms?" ...I absolutely expect it 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #44

You think the people will have sympathy for cops... virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #60

Absolutely. 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #74

Not up to me.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #75

Molon Labe Elmergantry Dec 2015 #102

When all else fails, threaten violence and war 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #108

Well I'm not the one Elmergantry Dec 2015 #110

Well, in that instance the Davidians were barricaded and firing on law enforcement 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #112

Again spoken like a totalitarian. Elmergantry Dec 2015 #161

"And none of this prevents you from immigrating to a country with lax gun laws" EX500rider Dec 2015 #206

Considering most of Mexico's guns come from the US 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #207

So strict guns laws do squat to keep out guns? EX500rider Dec 2015 #209

Point being they get most of their guns from us... 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #215

And is the US the only gun producer in the world? EX500rider Dec 2015 #217

"Hey Jamaica has crimes so gimmie muh gerns!" 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #218

It's a fairly obvious point that outlawing guns in those countries did nothing.. EX500rider Dec 2015 #219

It's not the firearm owners threatening violence, GGJohn Dec 2015 #126

Ban the sale & distribution of bullets and the means to make bullets. The_Casual_Observer Dec 2015 #64

Can't do that, that technology is almost 150 years old, virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #76

So you are going to ban lead, fire and brass? MindPilot Dec 2015 #79

Yeah that's right the whole fucking thing! The_Casual_Observer Dec 2015 #87

LOL that statement alone shows just how poorly you understand....... virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #214

Oh boy, here we go again. Red States vs. Blue States. I grew up in the country where a .22 was a libdem4life Dec 2015 #71

When women got the right to vote, kiva Dec 2015 #83

If the LEO's poked them all full of holes, it would be win-win. ileus Dec 2015 #85

Right, so KILLING LOTS OF OTHERWISE INNOCENT PEOPLE sibelian Dec 2015 #94

They're not innocent...they're the enemy if they're breaking the law. ileus Dec 2015 #95

Oooookidokey then, you draw up laws to bring about excuses to kill your enemy. sibelian Dec 2015 #96

To be perfectly honest, I think they would all give their guns up without a fight. Oneironaut Dec 2015 #89

After Sandy Hook Connecticut instituted some pretty strick new gun laws. Google what the Waldorf Dec 2015 #116

We will never have gun confiscation in the US. At least not in our lifetime. hollowdweller Dec 2015 #90

Some scumbags will resist. So what? HuckleB Dec 2015 #93

Of which 2/3rd's are suicides. GGJohn Dec 2015 #129

Oh, goodie. More actual keyboard commando nonsense. HuckleB Dec 2015 #137

I could care less if you're the Pope, GGJohn Dec 2015 #138

I could care less what you think. Period. HuckleB Dec 2015 #144

Just as I thought, GGJohn Dec 2015 #147

Derp. HuckleB Dec 2015 #149

I actually put myself in harms way for over 40+ years before I retired. GGJohn Dec 2015 #150

I doubt that very, very much. HuckleB Dec 2015 #152

And I very seriously doubt that you've EVER put yourself in danger in your life. GGJohn Dec 2015 #153

Blah. Blah. Blah. HuckleB Dec 2015 #154

Your refusal to answer the question, then accuse me of lying, then running away GGJohn Dec 2015 #155

Quite a piece or work, that one. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #200

Sure I will go treestar Dec 2015 #205

Not by me, GGJohn Dec 2015 #211

Do you support putting the earliest efforts at confiscation in African American communities? FrodosPet Dec 2015 #242

We are in trouble because millions sit around in paranoia, waiting for a self-fufilling prophecy Rex Dec 2015 #97

NOBODY is suggesting gun confiscation librechik Dec 2015 #106

That is a factuly incorrect statement on it's face.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #157

Thanks for showing me your bad spelling! Don't know any liberals librechik Dec 2015 #165

how about controlling powder? ormarkers in it? if fertilizer has that, and oc drugs are regulated... JanMichael Dec 2015 #107

Definition of gun control... Kang Colby Dec 2015 #120

While there certainly are millions of gun owners ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #127

If cops started kicking down the doors of lawful Americans looking for firearms, (won't ever happen) GGJohn Dec 2015 #130

So why are we talking about what won't happen ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #131

I have no idea why, GGJohn Dec 2015 #133

Very interesting that you chose to say "lawful Americans" not "lawful firearms" 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #132

If you truly believe that Americans won't resist this, GGJohn Dec 2015 #134

The only thing you have left is threatening people with violence over and over and over again 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #135

I myself have never visited violence on another human since I retired from the Army, GGJohn Dec 2015 #136

So threatening more violence? Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #140

I'm threatening violence? GGJohn Dec 2015 #142

Lol! So predictable. So dishonest. Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #143

I'll thank you to keep your words out of my mouth. GGJohn Dec 2015 #145

See #143 Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #146

See #145 GGJohn Dec 2015 #148

Not even capable of an original response. See #143 Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #151

Again, see post #145. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #156

See #143 Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #160

"In the last 43 years, more Americans have been shot by another American... EX500rider Dec 2015 #216

Well I'll be...Its almost like they included suicides, isn't it. beevul Dec 2015 #221

Unlikely hmm? Here you go. Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #230

It's says "Americans shot by another American" EX500rider Dec 2015 #231

Lol. still trying to defend your side. Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #232

Suicides are not "American's shooting other American's" per the OP EX500rider Dec 2015 #244

Lol..rationalize it however you like Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #245

It's not "rationalization" to point out the figures are wrong. Just facts. EX500rider Dec 2015 #246

I am citing facts, your simply spinning them Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #248

Except it's not a fact. EX500rider Dec 2015 #249

You functionally illiterate? Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #250

Are you mathematically challenged? lol EX500rider Dec 2015 #252

See #250 Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #256

I'll take that as a yes...lol EX500rider Dec 2015 #257

Keep spinning Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #258

When someone (you in this case) says "Americans who killed OTHER Americans"... EX500rider Dec 2015 #259

Lol! So predictable. So dishonest. Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #260

Just don't want to own what you wrote & I'm the dishonest one....lol EX500rider Dec 2015 #261

I stand by what I wrote. Keep spinning Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #262

So if you say "I drive other American's cars" you mean you drive your own car? EX500rider Dec 2015 #269

Keep trying Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #270

How to Create a Gun-Free America in 5 Easy Steps branford Dec 2015 #139

Confiscate the guns when they're not at home. ZX86 Dec 2015 #164

HA laundry_queen Dec 2015 #254

You poor little Red Dawn dreamer. Photographer Dec 2015 #167

What in the world leads you to believe that the military will fire on Americans? GGJohn Dec 2015 #169

They've done it before... On Vets. They follow orders. Photographer Dec 2015 #170

The military fired on American vets? GGJohn Dec 2015 #171

MacArthur. Google Bonus Army Photographer Dec 2015 #172

Wow!!! GGJohn Dec 2015 #173

Why not? Cops do it all the time. Hey, your precious 2nd is a lot older than 60 years. Photographer Dec 2015 #174

Again, what makes you think that cops are going to enforce a ban and confiscation? GGJohn Dec 2015 #175

If it's the law, they will enforce it. If you think they won't you live in a dream world Photographer Dec 2015 #177

You're the one living in a dream world. GGJohn Dec 2015 #179

I very much suspect you're wrong about that. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #187

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #194

when the time comes quaker bill Dec 2015 #183

Uh huh. GGJohn Dec 2015 #185

my model for prediction is very simple quaker bill Dec 2015 #225

"The law changes after the culture has changed." Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #238

I agree that it will be the unforeseen quaker bill Dec 2015 #247

I have been in both the military and law enforcement- neither body would do the confiscation Lee-Lee Dec 2015 #184

A severe ammo shortage would be a starting place. lonestarnot Dec 2015 #188

Not really for many reasons Lee-Lee Dec 2015 #191

Cops need another economic asset instead of "the marijuana." They can looks for bullets and lonestarnot Dec 2015 #222

WHO the FUCK is arguing for gun confiscation like that? Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #189

Evidently you have not been on here for a few days.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #213

fair enough, thanks Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #223

I have a feeling the NRA and other groups.. virginia mountainman Dec 2015 #224

Restrict new production, restrict ammo, stop public toting, restrict shooting ranges, etc. Let them Hoyt Dec 2015 #212

Hi RW trolls! Matrosov Dec 2015 #220

Luckily EdwardBernays Dec 2015 #226

Of course they would resist and if it takes violence to confiscate their guns so be it. bowens43 Dec 2015 #227

Actually, I think the first step would be to ban all imports and exports. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2015 #228

So who's going to perform that violence in order to confiscate? Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #236

I have found everyone is all talk DashOneBravo Dec 2015 #253

Would trigger a civil war. Elmergantry Dec 2015 #229

How did the Australians do it? (eom) Shankapotomus Dec 2015 #255

What if we hired private armies to carry out the confiscation and compliance. ileus Dec 2015 #268