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ismnotwasm

(42,482 posts)

42. Did then

Reply to otohara (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 9, 2016, 08:20 PM

Dec 2016

I'm just irritated

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Criticizing the DLC, the Third Way and the Blue Dogs is not "bashing Democrats". [View all] Ken Burch Dec 2016 OP

?? juxtaposed Dec 2016 #1

I think there was a hidden post ToxMarz Dec 2016 #5

No, I'll just wait and see how bad this op becomes. juxtaposed Dec 2016 #14

Why the popcorn? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #122

Because dumbcat Dec 2016 #131

What, have we become the "Third Way Underground" now? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #154

Makes sense to me. nt el_bryanto Dec 2016 #2

I don't think the issue was criticizing the DLC, the Third Way and the Blue dogs. ToxMarz Dec 2016 #3

Nobody is "bashing" them. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #9

It has also been morphed... GummyBearz Dec 2016 #18

But only in one direction. Marr Dec 2016 #23

Correct (n/t) GummyBearz Dec 2016 #25

Eleven posts in, and its about Process and terminology. Democrats. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #133

Yep jack_krass Dec 2016 #142

Posts suggesting Hillary was to some extent responsible for losing the Electoral vote vanish JudyM Dec 2016 #196

Give recent examples of third way politics over the last 8 years - what did you have in mind? JHan Dec 2016 #4

It doesn't matter whether they played a specific role in the last 8 years. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #17

I forgot Rahm existed... JHan Dec 2016 #24

The polls that show most Americans labeling themselves as "moderate" Ken Burch Dec 2016 #138

Ok, fair enough.. JHan Dec 2016 #160

If nothing else, we should make future trade proposals include public participation in the process. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #161

The goal of the DNC, DSCC and the DCCC is to nominate candidates who can win Gothmog Dec 2016 #128

No, there's nothing wrong with trying to win. We're all trying to do that. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #135

Goal, good. Results, reek. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #136

Have you ever tried recruiting a candidate to run for office? Gothmog Dec 2016 #137

Only on ocassion have I recruited; he lost by 37 votes to the "estab" liberal... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #141

Theres something wrong when you have to lie cheat and rig elections to win jack_krass Dec 2016 #146

The Myth of the All Powerful DNC Gothmog Dec 2016 #153

Thanks...... because if I see one more silly claim about "rigging"... JHan Dec 2016 #158

Are you also so dismissive of peoples concerns regarding the trump "victory" jack_krass Dec 2016 #164

I had to endure a year of silly accusations of millions of votes being "Rigged"... JHan Dec 2016 #165

I dont think there was election fraud. And I do think there are parallels to the GE jack_krass Dec 2016 #166

After Super Tuesday, Clinton had a delegate lead that Sanders could not over come Gothmog Dec 2016 #169

Not all powerfull, but certainly not powerless or insignificant. Somewhere in between jack_krass Dec 2016 #163

The claim that the DNC fixed the race for Sanders is wrong and was used to hurt Clinton by Trump Gothmog Dec 2016 #168

And the "rigged" myth persisted and fell neatly into Trump's claims of "rigging" .. JHan Dec 2016 #172

No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump. Gothmog Dec 2016 #193

agreed /nt JHan Dec 2016 #194

The DNC favored HRC over BS, and attempted to swaw/rig/influence the result of the primary jack_krass Dec 2016 #177

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Dec 2016 #178

The DNC favored HRC over BS, and attempted to swawrig/influence the result of the primary jack_krass Dec 2016 #180

Do you really believe this? The math says that you are wrong Gothmog Dec 2016 #181

In the real world that claim has no merit Gothmog Dec 2016 #199

Never said the DNC was all powerfull, I said the DNC favored HRC and rigged the primary in her favor jack_krass Dec 2016 #202

Again, that claim has no merit in the real world Gothmog Dec 2016 #203

Never claimed the DNC decided the outcome. I said the DNC favored HRC and rigged the primary in her jack_krass Dec 2016 #204

That supposed favoritism did not exist and did not play a role in Sanders' defeat Gothmog Dec 2016 #205

The superdelegates were a kind of rigging. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #192

Again your attempt at analysis is simply wrong and the facts do not back your assertions up Gothmog Dec 2016 #195

Sure, the fight over the ACA Warpy Dec 2016 #59

...that was grinder politics.. JHan Dec 2016 #61

You asked, I supplied Warpy Dec 2016 #64

The point is.. JHan Dec 2016 #67

On support for Obama: I found it nearly impossible to support him on ACA... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #139

You're not the first I've heard describe it that way... JHan Dec 2016 #157

What you say is true, but worse, he should have appealed to his supporters... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #179

Criticizing sanders with facts is not "bashing the Dems". Cha Dec 2016 #6

i see what you did there lol JHan Dec 2016 #7

Right.. it goes both ways. I know he's considered one on this Cha Dec 2016 #10

Criticize all you want. When he dies, do his ideas die as well? Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #143

That's because Sanders is not a Dem meow2u3 Dec 2016 #8

Yes, but I didn't mean it that way.. he's considered in Cha Dec 2016 #12

Criticizing him isn't...treating him as an enemy that the party should try to crush IS, though. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #11

Criticizing him with facts is not bashing. Cha Dec 2016 #13

There were no "facts" that made his candidacy illegimate. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #22

Criticizing BS with FACTS is not "bashing". Cha Dec 2016 #44

Cha, what exactly are those FACTS you speak of? hedda_foil Dec 2016 #89

No worries.. you can insult me all you want.. it Cha Dec 2016 #91

Really? Where? Gothmog Dec 2016 #130

What is not good are sweeping generalizations Justice Dec 2016 #145

Yeah he did Ken.. he did, he played his part in dividing the party.. JHan Dec 2016 #15

He couldn't have stayed out of the race when millions were begging him to run. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #21

The problem is not that he ran.. JHan Dec 2016 #27

It bothered SOME Democrats-not "Democrats" as a group. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #35

Corruption is being used too loosely where I've lost track of its meaning.. JHan Dec 2016 #48

People objected to the constant refrain mcar Dec 2016 #54

Right! JHan Dec 2016 #62

Yep mcar Dec 2016 #78

Sanders attacks on Clinton were really unneeded and hurt the party Gothmog Dec 2016 #132

He drove a wedge in the party by smearing Dems and allies ONLY because they did not support him... bettyellen Dec 2016 #28

Millions were begging him to run??? NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #55

I didn't call him "the LAST great hope"...And I'm not disputing Hillary's popular vote margin Ken Burch Dec 2016 #84

Your own words, Ken ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #88

OK...to start with Ken Burch Dec 2016 #92

I'm done here, Ken. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #93

I meant that it would have been HIM having to give up. Not everyone else. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #94

"What other options existed, other than just vanishing? " NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #99

He HAD done his job. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #104

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Dec 2016 #151

It wasn't obvious that Bernie wouldn't be the nominee. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #162

You are wrong again Gothmog Dec 2016 #167

+ about a million NastyRiffraff Dec 2016 #98

There were no millions begging Sanders to run Gothmog Dec 2016 #150

Exactly. n/t NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #156

I am amazed by this claim Gothmog Dec 2016 #174

"millions were begging him to run"?? He even admitted (indeed, shoved it down our throats)..... George II Dec 2016 #101

You are using facts against a silly talking point Gothmog Dec 2016 #171

Well, it's been five days so I guess you're right. George II Dec 2016 #173

I am still waiting for proof of the millions who begged Sanders to run Gothmog Dec 2016 #170

Ok, a huge number of people. There was something huge and real there. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #183

You are wrong yet again Gothmog Dec 2016 #184

I supported Hillary in the fall. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #185

Your posts do not support your amusing but wrong claims Gothmog Dec 2016 #186

It's not an answer to just keep saying "the math...the math...the math" Ken Burch Dec 2016 #187

You are totally wrong yet again Gothmog Dec 2016 #188

You are not entitled to condescend to me, or to anyone else. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #189

I have the facts backing up my position Gothmog Dec 2016 #190

Actually, you simply have interpretation. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #191

WOW-you are stilll wrong-the facts do support my claims Gothmog Dec 2016 #197

So you have no proof and we are to take your word for this? Gothmog Dec 2016 #198

Hillary had no chance, not in a year like this one. alarimer Dec 2016 #30

She lost to Obama, in her earlier "annointed" status, and couldn't carry Florida... Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #147

Bernie Sanders didn't divide the party. It has been divided since the shift right in the 1980s. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #76

Good stuff Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #144

If Bernie would have been our candidate madokie Dec 2016 #38

That your opinion. Opinions are not facts. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #46

Whatever madokie Dec 2016 #50

Right.. there was never any oppo research done on BS.. his fans Cha Dec 2016 #80

Sanders would have been killed in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #176

One of my all time favorite posts. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #60

The same is true with Warren. nt Gore1FL Dec 2016 #77

Fake Fact otohara Dec 2016 #119

Damm straight jack_krass Dec 2016 #155

Sanders would have been a very weak general election candidate Gothmog Dec 2016 #175

I don't think 'facts' mean what you think it means. /nt Marr Dec 2016 #20

Well said. riversedge Dec 2016 #32

Thank you, rivers.. lol@those who accuse me of not Cha Dec 2016 #40

Agreed Gothmog Dec 2016 #129

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #16

Well GummyBearz Dec 2016 #19

Same here. alarimer Dec 2016 #31

That is a problem for some here and also at JPR. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #26

No, it isn't and I'm getting tired of this. alarimer Dec 2016 #29

The DLC? What is this, 2004? lol Drunken Irishman Dec 2016 #33

It is when the terms have been turned into ridiculous memes ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #34

The DLC Closed in 2011 otohara Dec 2016 #36

Did then ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #42

You lump Democrats into tidy little packages and whack away KittyWampus Dec 2016 #37

I don't whack away at anyone. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #70

I hope you know the DLC disbanded on February 7, 2011 Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #39

And it's effects kcdoug1 Dec 2016 #47

Your boogie man in other words Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #52

Yeah, but here we have to perseverate on a non existent mcar Dec 2016 #57

The wrong-headed strategy, unfortunately, did not disband with it. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #79

Are you calling Obama DLC? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #81

He is way more moderate than I had hoped for. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #82

So's the rest of the country Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #86

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #90

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #95

I would be pleading for sympathy for this horse DFW Dec 2016 #41

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #43

I'm sure LWolf Dec 2016 #45

It does kcdoug1 Dec 2016 #49

When it's the big "D" LWolf Dec 2016 #96

Hell, I wonder what "Underground" means. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #148

Criticism is not the problem ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #51

I keep asking ... JHan Dec 2016 #56

It's part of my somewhat incoherent rant above ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #58

I don't know why you can't "get" neoliberalism, LWolf Dec 2016 #97

I'm not denying reality JHan Dec 2016 #110

Bullshit. LWolf Dec 2016 #116

stick a pin in it... JHan Dec 2016 #117

lol LWolf Dec 2016 #120

So you got nothing more for me... JHan Dec 2016 #121

I've got plenty more LWolf Dec 2016 #123

So nothing then..okay. JHan Dec 2016 #124

No... LWolf Dec 2016 #125

OK...here's what it means Ken Burch Dec 2016 #105

Answered some of this here:.. JHan Dec 2016 #111

By "pro-business", I wasn't referring to policies regarding SMALL business; Ken Burch Dec 2016 #113

Yes I acknowledge corporatist hegemony but.. JHan Dec 2016 #114

I'm open to that, and I think a lot of people on the left would be. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #115

Yep, I agree with most of that...if done smart... JHan Dec 2016 #118

Then make the argument without attacking the individual. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #53

I referenced the individual because that was a thread ABOUT an individual. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #65

It's simply the standard you outlined in your op. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #66

I posted that(which I deleted already) because I had just been accused Ken Burch Dec 2016 #69

It being a response negates nothing. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #71

If an individual is the subject of a discussion, you HAVE to reference that individual Ken Burch Dec 2016 #72

No, YOU have to do it in this manner. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #73

It depends on how you do it. Sometimes it IS bashing. n/t pnwmom Dec 2016 #63

The DLC are Democrats, "Third Way" for the most part are Democrats, and Blue Dogs... George II Dec 2016 #68

You're not a Democrat if you think social spending should be cut Ken Burch Dec 2016 #106

What Democratic President has cut social spending? If you're concerned about cuts.... George II Dec 2016 #107

Carter and Clinton BOTH cut it. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #108

Well, spending was cut during their administrations, I agree. George II Dec 2016 #112

Right now, the Democratic party is very, very weak elmac Dec 2016 #74

You're right. The Party is very weak. Americans cannot abide weakness. Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #149

Seems to me as if the problem lies in making ad hominem-style attacks on a group of people. spooky3 Dec 2016 #75

I didn't care what you thought before the election and I don't care now leftofcool Dec 2016 #83

It isn't about ME as an individual. Never has been. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #85

Right, because one ought to cut off their nose to spite their face Cary Dec 2016 #87

Constructive Criticism Is Usually Needed colsohlibgal Dec 2016 #100

What another No Shit Sherlock moment FreakinDJ Dec 2016 #102

well the constant criticism is not good treestar Dec 2016 #103

Well I just had two juries hide my posts killbotfactory Dec 2016 #109

There is a vocal contingent virulently opposed to any objective analysis of the party establishment. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2016 #126

Your analysis is totally wrong and sad. Gothmog Dec 2016 #127

They just need to step aside now and let others lead the way. Rex Dec 2016 #134

The first person I think of coco22 Dec 2016 #140

Legit constructive criticism of the right, center, and the progressive wing of the party is fine. hrmjustin Dec 2016 #152

Poor horse. Nt NCTraveler Dec 2016 #159

Damn. This keeps popping up. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #182

Completely making up lies about them are La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #200

Either we see a swarm of new voters in two years Eliot Rosewater Dec 2016 #201