Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

JHan

(10,173 posts)
24. No trade agreement will be liked by everyone...
Wed Jan 25, 2017, 01:27 AM
Jan 2017

and provisions in trade deals aren't "feel good", even non-binding provisions pressure trade partners to adhere to the deal - and they'll realise that it's better to do so than risk violating provisions.

Reducing taxes on corporations frees up revenue for "small businesses" right?


You're ignoring the precedent that tariffs fail. I mentioned Smoot-Hawley Tariff, which represented the last wave of protectionism by Republicans, which was conceived to protect our companies but resulted in catastrophic consequences. At the time, the American Economic Association warned that the tariff act would raise the cost of living by “compelling the consumer to subsidize waste and inefficiency in [domestic] industry.” ( showing once again that Protectionism takes sides) And that the farm sector would not be helped since “cotton, pork, lard, and wheat are export crops and sold in the world market” and farmers would suffer increased operational costs. Third, “our export trade in general would suffer. Countries cannot buy from us unless they are permitted to sell to us.” And the tariff would “inevitably provoke other countries to pay us back in kind against our goods.” And American investors too, would suffer if protective duties were to be increased, since such action would make it still more difficult for their foreign creditors to pay them the interest due them. "https://econjwatch.org/articles/economists-against-smoot-hawley

"And we made China. We created that. They are a horrible polluter, and our way of life is even worse on the environment, even if our air and our rivers are better here at home. This deal might have hurt China's choke-hold on certain things, again, a dynamic we created because all we cared about was helping to make our corporations a boat load of money. It had nothing to do with lifting up the Chinese worker. "


The Chinese Middle class has expanded, as evidenced in the link I provided you with about people lifted out of poverty. Trade deals didn't start pollution in China. You may find the effects distasteful to your sensibilities and ideals, but the data is there and cannot be refuted. You should not conflate China's national policies towards the environment with a trade deal.

And yes smaller businesses benefit from lower tariffs. It is exports and consumer demand that drives job creation. Lower tariffs make it easier for our entrepreneurs, small business owners and farmers to sell our products by eliminating taxes and barriers on American products- we are currently at a disadvantage in the Asia Pacific, the TPP would have given us an edge.

"I don't think liberals are actually in opposition to trade agreements...we just haven't seen one we liked. And that isn't because we want perfect, it's because we think that as written, they are the enemy of the good."


Many liberals like trade agreements - it is the progressive wing of the left that tends not to like them. And you will never find the perfect agreement. There are always winners and losers, it is how we treat with the losers that makes the difference. It's interesting you dismiss the Zakara piece as just "rhetoric" (tho I think it's good rhetoric) when a quote in there sums up succinctly what our problem has always been:

It took a Chinese billionaire to speak frankly on this topic. Jack Ma, the founder of the e-commerce giant Alibaba, estimated that over the past three decades the U.S. government spent $14.2 trillion fighting 13 wars. That money could have been invested in America, building infrastructure and creating jobs. “You’re supposed to spend money on your own people,” he said. He pointed out that globalization produced massive profits for the U.S. economy but much of that money ended up on Wall Street. “And what happened? Year 2008. The financial crisis wiped out $19.2 trillion [in the] U.S.A. alone. .?.?. What if the money [had been] spent on the Midwest of the United States developing the industry there?” he asked. “It’s not [that] the other countries steal jobs from you guys — it is your strategy,” he concluded.

The think is that... nycbos Jan 2017 #1
Throughout history, tyrants have been able to misdirect people's anger... Wounded Bear Jan 2017 #2
+++++ JHan Jan 2017 #8
When does Rollerball start? n/t Hestia Jan 2017 #3
it seems to me that in a sensible society, increasing automation would be a good thing anarch Jan 2017 #4
It isn't that automation is bad. In fact, in theory, destruction of the planet withstanding, this JCanete Jan 2017 #6
agreed: JHan Jan 2017 #9
Protectionism would have been good a long time ago, when we could have set labor standards JCanete Jan 2017 #5
Well we had an opportunity with the TPP... JHan Jan 2017 #12
The notion that TPP is good and that protectionism is bad, is predicated on assumptions that JCanete Jan 2017 #15
However... JHan Jan 2017 #16
there is a vast difference between expecting other countries to be as finicky? as us* JCanete Jan 2017 #17
You cannot make those kinds of judgments for other countries.. JHan Jan 2017 #18
I'm not sure how tarrifs would be lecturing. They would be much more about making us JCanete Jan 2017 #19
Tariffs have forever failed: JHan Jan 2017 #20
Tariffs have failed for who, when, how? How were they implemented and what was their intention? JCanete Jan 2017 #21
Again.. JHan Jan 2017 #22
unless you can demonstrate that language in the thing would have done something other than JCanete Jan 2017 #23
No trade agreement will be liked by everyone... JHan Jan 2017 #24
This is precisely what TPP was about. joshcryer Jan 2017 #7
Drumpfy can try to outlaw automation. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2017 #10
Thank you for this, JH Cha Jan 2017 #11
Truck drivers, taxi, Uber, cashiers, fast food workers, who am I leaving out? sarcasmo Jan 2017 #13
Hedge Fund managers potentially... lol.. JHan Jan 2017 #14
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»President Obama's warning...»Reply #24