HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I am sincerely perplexed ... » Reply #68

Response to wandy (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 01:43 PM

68. You need to do your research better then.

 

If you had, you would have discovered exactly what's involved and how difficult and expensive it is to have a semi-auto AR-15 converted to full-auto...

The Drop in Auto Sear Conversion for the AR-15

The Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS) is a device that is adds an auto sear to an otherwise semi-automatic AR-15 so that when used with M-16 fire control parts including an M-16 carrier produces full auto fire. The DIAS is referred to as a "Drop In" as this piece can be added to an AR-15 without drilling a receiver for a traditional auto sear. Following is a photo of a registered Drop In Auto Sear (rDIAS) made by JCB and registered before 1986.


There are two types of AR15 Drop-In Auto-Sears (DIAS) available; (1)the so called ”legal pre-81” auto sears and (2)the registered auto sear. The “pre-81” sears are commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200. The registered and transferable ones are much more difficult to find, and currently (Nov-2003) are priced in the $7500 - 8500 price range. The purpose and function of each type is the same; to convert a semi-automatic AR15 rifle to full automatic. While there is no physical difference between the two, there are enormous legal differences - one is completely legal to own and use, the other is a felony waiting to happen.

THE REGISTERED & TRANSFERABLE DROP-IN AUTO SEAR

This is a an auto sear made before 1986 and registered (tax paid) with the BATF as a machinegun. Currently (Nov-2003) they sell in the $7500 - 8500 price range and require an additional $200 transfer tax to own. This is the only type an individual can use to make an AR15 full auto. To obtain one, an individual (non FFL/SOT) would have to live in a state that permits ownership of full auto firearms and complete a BATF form 4 in duplicate with fingerprints, pictures, and a CLEO certification. The auto sear itself is legally the same as a complete transferable machinegun - it is legal to own and use, provided the paperwork is filed with BATF and you receive an approved form 4. The registered auto sear requires installation of M16 (full auto) fire control parts (trigger, disconnector, selector, hammer, and bolt carrier) in the semi automatic host rifle. Normally, even possession of an M16 part with an AR15 is a felony - it doesn’t even have to be installed in the gun! If you own a registered DIAS however, possession is permitted as long as you are the legal owner of a registered DIAS. If the DIAS is removed from the rifle, the M16 parts MUST BE REMOVED also. The instant a registered DIAS is removed, any M16 parts in the AR15 will constitute a felony. The same principle also applies to barrel length. If you have a short barrel (less than 16”) on an AR15 with a registered DIAS installed, you must remove the barrel/upper whenever the DIAS is not in the gun. The registered DIAS can be installed in either a pre or post ban AR15 with all the evil assault features you wish. Because the DIAS makes the rifle full automatic when installed, it is no longer covered by the 1994 assault weapons ban, which defines an assault weapon as a “semiautomatic rifle” with specific features (bayo. lug, threaded barrel, flash hider, etc.). When the sear is removed from a post-ban gun, you must restore the gun to a post-ban configuration, and remove those evil assault features. Just remember, when the registered DIAS is installed, the host gun becomes like a machinegun and is treated as such. The instant the DIAS is removed, the host firearm must revert back to its original semiautomatic state (no F/A parts, no short barrels), and if a post ban, it must comply with the assault weapons ban.

THE “PRE-81” DROP-IN AUTO SEAR

The “pre-81” DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - it’s one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.

The so called “pre-81” DIAS presents another legal problem, which can make the mere possession of the sear a felony - even in the complete absence or an AR15. As stated previously, only sears made prior to 1981 are allowed to be unregistered - any sears made after the 1981 ruling must be registered or will be considered by BATF to be unregistered machineguns. Because none of the pre-81 sears carry a serial number which can be definitively linked to a date of manufacture, there is no way to prove to BATF or a prosecutor that an unregistered pre-81 DIAS was actually made prior to 1981. If you are caught with one (just a sear, not even with a rifle) BATF can assume it was made after 1981, and therefore prosecute for felony possession of an unregistered machinegun. The burden of proof will fall on the owner of the sear to prove it was made prior to 1981 - very difficult to do without a serial number of date of manufacture on the sear itself. Granted, some pre-81 sears come with a letter purported to document the sears authenticity, but often these are just Xeroxed, and will not stand up to the scrutiny of a prosecutor.

CONCLUSIONS

If you are considering buying an auto sear to convert your AR15 to a full automatic firearm, there is only one option - the registered & transferable DIAS. While it may be tempting to buy a pre-81 to save thousands over the registered sear, the risks are considerable. Possession of an unregistered machinegun (a pre-81 DIAS and an AR15 rifle...or possibly even just a so called “pre-81” DIAS) is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, and up to a $10,000 fine, and permanent loss of your right to ever own a gun or vote again. Numerous rumors have circulated that some of the people selling the pre-81 sears are actually BATF operations. Buyer beware.



http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html


Or alternatively, via a Lightning Link...


http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 211 replies Author Time Post
phantom power Jul 2012 OP
Cooley Hurd Jul 2012 #1
pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #3
PatrynXX Jul 2012 #123
pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #128
pscot Jul 2012 #132
pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #139
lunatica Jul 2012 #13
xmas74 Jul 2012 #51
PatrynXX Jul 2012 #131
pscot Jul 2012 #135
xmas74 Jul 2012 #148
X_Digger Jul 2012 #210
xmas74 Jul 2012 #211
movonne Jul 2012 #119
samsingh Jul 2012 #203
DrDan Jul 2012 #2
Odin2005 Jul 2012 #4
Edweird Jul 2012 #5
grantcart Jul 2012 #17
Edweird Jul 2012 #30
grantcart Jul 2012 #90
klook Jul 2012 #114
quakerboy Jul 2012 #118
grantcart Jul 2012 #125
Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #167
grantcart Jul 2012 #169
slackmaster Jul 2012 #190
drm604 Jul 2012 #120
calimary Jul 2012 #130
Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #127
calimary Jul 2012 #129
grantcart Jul 2012 #133
calimary Jul 2012 #165
laundry_queen Jul 2012 #192
DCBob Jul 2012 #158
Tejas Jul 2012 #202
samsingh Jul 2012 #204
Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2012 #172
Edweird Jul 2012 #41
rl6214 Jul 2012 #194
DirkGently Jul 2012 #54
Edweird Jul 2012 #184
DirkGently Jul 2012 #188
Edweird Jul 2012 #191
rl6214 Jul 2012 #195
pasto76 Jul 2012 #58
Edweird Jul 2012 #69
pasto76 Jul 2012 #149
Edweird Jul 2012 #163
OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #186
rl6214 Jul 2012 #196
TroglodyteScholar Jul 2012 #71
pasto76 Jul 2012 #151
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #103
pasto76 Jul 2012 #150
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #154
pasto76 Jul 2012 #160
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #162
Igel Jul 2012 #79
Edweird Jul 2012 #87
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #101
Paladin Jul 2012 #109
Edweird Jul 2012 #138
rhett o rick Jul 2012 #112
Edweird Jul 2012 #140
phantom power Jul 2012 #121
Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #137
phantom power Jul 2012 #206
Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #208
intaglio Jul 2012 #136
Edweird Jul 2012 #143
intaglio Jul 2012 #168
Edweird Jul 2012 #170
liberalmuse Jul 2012 #152
Erose999 Jul 2012 #178
Edweird Jul 2012 #183
Erose999 Jul 2012 #185
Edweird Jul 2012 #187
Erose999 Jul 2012 #197
Edweird Jul 2012 #198
Erose999 Jul 2012 #201
Edweird Jul 2012 #205
hack89 Jul 2012 #6
slackmaster Jul 2012 #7
DrDan Jul 2012 #16
leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #22
DrDan Jul 2012 #23
LonePirate Jul 2012 #38
slackmaster Jul 2012 #48
Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #56
DrDan Jul 2012 #73
slackmaster Jul 2012 #75
Skittles Jul 2012 #116
DrDan Jul 2012 #146
calimary Jul 2012 #141
DrDan Jul 2012 #145
calimary Jul 2012 #147
jmowreader Jul 2012 #156
DrDan Jul 2012 #159
dionysus Jul 2012 #175
DrDan Jul 2012 #177
leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #18
Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #57
slackmaster Jul 2012 #60
Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #70
slackmaster Jul 2012 #72
Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #76
slackmaster Jul 2012 #77
pasto76 Jul 2012 #61
slackmaster Jul 2012 #65
A Simple Game Jul 2012 #142
pasto76 Jul 2012 #161
slackmaster Jul 2012 #173
Kaleva Jul 2012 #181
pasto76 Jul 2012 #153
slackmaster Jul 2012 #155
Kaleva Jul 2012 #80
Igel Jul 2012 #82
pasto76 Jul 2012 #157
ileus Jul 2012 #63
bonniebgood Jul 2012 #124
slackmaster Jul 2012 #126
muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #164
slackmaster Jul 2012 #171
muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #180
slackmaster Jul 2012 #182
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #8
Posteritatis Jul 2012 #20
ellisonz Jul 2012 #9
Kaleva Jul 2012 #10
Kaleva Jul 2012 #11
Edweird Jul 2012 #12
Kaleva Jul 2012 #19
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #35
Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #66
Igel Jul 2012 #83
frazzled Jul 2012 #14
Igel Jul 2012 #86
frazzled Jul 2012 #95
TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #144
Gman Jul 2012 #15
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #21
Generic Brad Jul 2012 #24
Igel Jul 2012 #89
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #25
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #27
99Forever Jul 2012 #26
TeamPooka Jul 2012 #28
wandy Jul 2012 #29
Tejas Jul 2012 #36
wandy Jul 2012 #40
Tejas Jul 2012 #49
Kaleva Jul 2012 #55
LineLineLineLineReply You need to do your research better then.
-..__... Jul 2012 #68
Igel Jul 2012 #104
Igel Jul 2012 #93
Kaleva Jul 2012 #37
wandy Jul 2012 #46
slackmaster Jul 2012 #53
Kaleva Jul 2012 #62
slackmaster Jul 2012 #52
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #67
wandy Jul 2012 #85
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #98
Tejas Jul 2012 #31
Kaleva Jul 2012 #44
Igel Jul 2012 #105
Iggy Jul 2012 #32
HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #39
Kaleva Jul 2012 #43
Kaleva Jul 2012 #42
Iggy Jul 2012 #166
Tejas Jul 2012 #47
Igel Jul 2012 #110
petronius Jul 2012 #33
Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #34
ileus Jul 2012 #45
JVS Jul 2012 #50
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #74
samsingh Jul 2012 #59
slackmaster Jul 2012 #64
Kaleva Jul 2012 #81
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #100
Kaleva Jul 2012 #106
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #111
harun Jul 2012 #107
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #113
dionysus Jul 2012 #174
Ready4Change Jul 2012 #91
slackmaster Jul 2012 #94
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #97
Igel Jul 2012 #134
jmowreader Jul 2012 #189
benEzra Jul 2012 #209
Schema Thing Jul 2012 #78
Rex Jul 2012 #84
avaistheone1 Jul 2012 #88
Kaleva Jul 2012 #92
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #99
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #102
ananda Jul 2012 #96
MineralMan Jul 2012 #108
obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #115
Raine1967 Jul 2012 #117
baldguy Jul 2012 #122
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #176
Hoyt Jul 2012 #179
rl6214 Jul 2012 #193
MrMickeysMom Jul 2012 #200
REP Jul 2012 #199
phantom power Jul 2012 #207
Please login to view edit histories.