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In reply to the discussion: I am sincerely perplexed by the "it's not an assault rifle" meme... [View all]-..__...
(7,776 posts)68. You need to do your research better then.
If you had, you would have discovered exactly what's involved and how difficult and expensive it is to have a semi-auto AR-15 converted to full-auto...
The Drop in Auto Sear Conversion for the AR-15
The Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS) is a device that is adds an auto sear to an otherwise semi-automatic AR-15 so that when used with M-16 fire control parts including an M-16 carrier produces full auto fire. The DIAS is referred to as a "Drop In" as this piece can be added to an AR-15 without drilling a receiver for a traditional auto sear. Following is a photo of a registered Drop In Auto Sear (rDIAS) made by JCB and registered before 1986.
The Drop In Auto Sear (DIAS) is a device that is adds an auto sear to an otherwise semi-automatic AR-15 so that when used with M-16 fire control parts including an M-16 carrier produces full auto fire. The DIAS is referred to as a "Drop In" as this piece can be added to an AR-15 without drilling a receiver for a traditional auto sear. Following is a photo of a registered Drop In Auto Sear (rDIAS) made by JCB and registered before 1986.
There are two types of AR15 Drop-In Auto-Sears (DIAS) available; (1)the so called legal pre-81 auto sears and (2)the registered auto sear. The pre-81 sears are commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200. The registered and transferable ones are much more difficult to find, and currently (Nov-2003) are priced in the $7500 - 8500 price range. The purpose and function of each type is the same; to convert a semi-automatic AR15 rifle to full automatic. While there is no physical difference between the two, there are enormous legal differences - one is completely legal to own and use, the other is a felony waiting to happen.
THE REGISTERED & TRANSFERABLE DROP-IN AUTO SEAR
This is a an auto sear made before 1986 and registered (tax paid) with the BATF as a machinegun. Currently (Nov-2003) they sell in the $7500 - 8500 price range and require an additional $200 transfer tax to own. This is the only type an individual can use to make an AR15 full auto. To obtain one, an individual (non FFL/SOT) would have to live in a state that permits ownership of full auto firearms and complete a BATF form 4 in duplicate with fingerprints, pictures, and a CLEO certification. The auto sear itself is legally the same as a complete transferable machinegun - it is legal to own and use, provided the paperwork is filed with BATF and you receive an approved form 4. The registered auto sear requires installation of M16 (full auto) fire control parts (trigger, disconnector, selector, hammer, and bolt carrier) in the semi automatic host rifle. Normally, even possession of an M16 part with an AR15 is a felony - it doesnt even have to be installed in the gun! If you own a registered DIAS however, possession is permitted as long as you are the legal owner of a registered DIAS. If the DIAS is removed from the rifle, the M16 parts MUST BE REMOVED also. The instant a registered DIAS is removed, any M16 parts in the AR15 will constitute a felony. The same principle also applies to barrel length. If you have a short barrel (less than 16) on an AR15 with a registered DIAS installed, you must remove the barrel/upper whenever the DIAS is not in the gun. The registered DIAS can be installed in either a pre or post ban AR15 with all the evil assault features you wish. Because the DIAS makes the rifle full automatic when installed, it is no longer covered by the 1994 assault weapons ban, which defines an assault weapon as a semiautomatic rifle with specific features (bayo. lug, threaded barrel, flash hider, etc.). When the sear is removed from a post-ban gun, you must restore the gun to a post-ban configuration, and remove those evil assault features. Just remember, when the registered DIAS is installed, the host gun becomes like a machinegun and is treated as such. The instant the DIAS is removed, the host firearm must revert back to its original semiautomatic state (no F/A parts, no short barrels), and if a post ban, it must comply with the assault weapons ban.
THE PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR
The pre-81 DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - its one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.
The so called pre-81 DIAS presents another legal problem, which can make the mere possession of the sear a felony - even in the complete absence or an AR15. As stated previously, only sears made prior to 1981 are allowed to be unregistered - any sears made after the 1981 ruling must be registered or will be considered by BATF to be unregistered machineguns. Because none of the pre-81 sears carry a serial number which can be definitively linked to a date of manufacture, there is no way to prove to BATF or a prosecutor that an unregistered pre-81 DIAS was actually made prior to 1981. If you are caught with one (just a sear, not even with a rifle) BATF can assume it was made after 1981, and therefore prosecute for felony possession of an unregistered machinegun. The burden of proof will fall on the owner of the sear to prove it was made prior to 1981 - very difficult to do without a serial number of date of manufacture on the sear itself. Granted, some pre-81 sears come with a letter purported to document the sears authenticity, but often these are just Xeroxed, and will not stand up to the scrutiny of a prosecutor.
CONCLUSIONS
If you are considering buying an auto sear to convert your AR15 to a full automatic firearm, there is only one option - the registered & transferable DIAS. While it may be tempting to buy a pre-81 to save thousands over the registered sear, the risks are considerable. Possession of an unregistered machinegun (a pre-81 DIAS and an AR15 rifle...or possibly even just a so called pre-81 DIAS) is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, and up to a $10,000 fine, and permanent loss of your right to ever own a gun or vote again. Numerous rumors have circulated that some of the people selling the pre-81 sears are actually BATF operations. Buyer beware.
THE REGISTERED & TRANSFERABLE DROP-IN AUTO SEAR
This is a an auto sear made before 1986 and registered (tax paid) with the BATF as a machinegun. Currently (Nov-2003) they sell in the $7500 - 8500 price range and require an additional $200 transfer tax to own. This is the only type an individual can use to make an AR15 full auto. To obtain one, an individual (non FFL/SOT) would have to live in a state that permits ownership of full auto firearms and complete a BATF form 4 in duplicate with fingerprints, pictures, and a CLEO certification. The auto sear itself is legally the same as a complete transferable machinegun - it is legal to own and use, provided the paperwork is filed with BATF and you receive an approved form 4. The registered auto sear requires installation of M16 (full auto) fire control parts (trigger, disconnector, selector, hammer, and bolt carrier) in the semi automatic host rifle. Normally, even possession of an M16 part with an AR15 is a felony - it doesnt even have to be installed in the gun! If you own a registered DIAS however, possession is permitted as long as you are the legal owner of a registered DIAS. If the DIAS is removed from the rifle, the M16 parts MUST BE REMOVED also. The instant a registered DIAS is removed, any M16 parts in the AR15 will constitute a felony. The same principle also applies to barrel length. If you have a short barrel (less than 16) on an AR15 with a registered DIAS installed, you must remove the barrel/upper whenever the DIAS is not in the gun. The registered DIAS can be installed in either a pre or post ban AR15 with all the evil assault features you wish. Because the DIAS makes the rifle full automatic when installed, it is no longer covered by the 1994 assault weapons ban, which defines an assault weapon as a semiautomatic rifle with specific features (bayo. lug, threaded barrel, flash hider, etc.). When the sear is removed from a post-ban gun, you must restore the gun to a post-ban configuration, and remove those evil assault features. Just remember, when the registered DIAS is installed, the host gun becomes like a machinegun and is treated as such. The instant the DIAS is removed, the host firearm must revert back to its original semiautomatic state (no F/A parts, no short barrels), and if a post ban, it must comply with the assault weapons ban.
THE PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR
The pre-81 DIAS - commonly advertised in Shotgun News for about $125-$200 are a completely different item than a registered DIAS. Prior to 1981 it was legal to make and own these sears without necessarily registering them as machineguns. BATF eventually caught on, and in 1981 issued a ruling that the sears were considered machinegun conversion parts and sears made after 1981 had to be registered (tax paid) and transfer as any other NFA item (these became the registered ones referred to above). BATF grandfathered the unregistered sears made prior to 1981, but sears made after 1981 had to either be registered or are considered unregistered machineguns - a serious felony. IT IS A FELONY TO POSSESS BOTH A PRE-81 DROP-IN AUTO SEAR AND AN AR15 - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LEGALLY USE A PRE-81 DIAS IN AN AR15. Technically, you are allowed to possess an unregistered DIAS which was made prior to 1981, but you cannot possess one if you own an AR15 - its one or the other, but not both. Obviously, this rule makes possession of a pre-81 DIAS useless - if you cannot own the rifle it goes in, about all you can do with them is to make cufflinks, earrings, or a very small paperweight.
The so called pre-81 DIAS presents another legal problem, which can make the mere possession of the sear a felony - even in the complete absence or an AR15. As stated previously, only sears made prior to 1981 are allowed to be unregistered - any sears made after the 1981 ruling must be registered or will be considered by BATF to be unregistered machineguns. Because none of the pre-81 sears carry a serial number which can be definitively linked to a date of manufacture, there is no way to prove to BATF or a prosecutor that an unregistered pre-81 DIAS was actually made prior to 1981. If you are caught with one (just a sear, not even with a rifle) BATF can assume it was made after 1981, and therefore prosecute for felony possession of an unregistered machinegun. The burden of proof will fall on the owner of the sear to prove it was made prior to 1981 - very difficult to do without a serial number of date of manufacture on the sear itself. Granted, some pre-81 sears come with a letter purported to document the sears authenticity, but often these are just Xeroxed, and will not stand up to the scrutiny of a prosecutor.
CONCLUSIONS
If you are considering buying an auto sear to convert your AR15 to a full automatic firearm, there is only one option - the registered & transferable DIAS. While it may be tempting to buy a pre-81 to save thousands over the registered sear, the risks are considerable. Possession of an unregistered machinegun (a pre-81 DIAS and an AR15 rifle...or possibly even just a so called pre-81 DIAS) is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, and up to a $10,000 fine, and permanent loss of your right to ever own a gun or vote again. Numerous rumors have circulated that some of the people selling the pre-81 sears are actually BATF operations. Buyer beware.
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html
Or alternatively, via a Lightning Link...
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/lightninglink.html
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I am sincerely perplexed by the "it's not an assault rifle" meme... [View all]
phantom power
Jul 2012
OP
Here's the thing. You are being fooled by cosmetics. Both guns perform the same.
Edweird
Jul 2012
#5
"Simply because hunting rifles can be converted to assault rifles doesn't mean that it should be leg
rl6214
Jul 2012
#194
You forgot to mention that the men and women that own the 200 miilion guns in the US
Edweird
Jul 2012
#184
You forgot to include that most of these "assault weapons" are ergonomically superior to hunting rif
rl6214
Jul 2012
#195
Incorrect, they are very different weapons. As well "assault rifle" is VERY real and not made up
pasto76
Jul 2012
#58
Really? You believe semi-auto is "more firepower" than 3 shot burst or full auto?
Edweird
Jul 2012
#69
Dude, do you even know why there is 3 round burst? SEMI AUTO is the MOST LETHAL
pasto76
Jul 2012
#149
I think you are giving accessories way too much credit and your training and experience too little.
Edweird
Jul 2012
#163
Im a democrat. Im also a soldier. I also want people to be able to watch a goddamn movie
pasto76
Jul 2012
#151
If semi-automatics with lots of accessories confer more fire-power than machine guns
4th law of robotics
Jul 2012
#103
Great point. Outlaw both. Outlaw all semi-automatic rifles. A good hunter doesnt
rhett o rick
Jul 2012
#112
I see your point, but it seems like it must be more than *just* cosmetics...
phantom power
Jul 2012
#121
Nope. Wooden stocks are expensive, heavy and require much more maintenance. The military developed
Egalitarian Thug
Jul 2012
#137
Yep, that about sums it up. The .223 can be used for something deer sized if you are
Egalitarian Thug
Jul 2012
#208
AR=30rd mag. Mini 30 sporter or a woodsmaster has a 5-10 rd. mag. Also, an assault rifle takes an
Erose999
Jul 2012
#178
The phrase "well regulated militia" preceeds "keep and bear arms" and "shall not be finfringed". So
Erose999
Jul 2012
#185
"The shooter might have been shot". It would have been a bad idea to pull on the shooter. several
Erose999
Jul 2012
#197
I'm just saying its not the best idea to challenge a shooter in a situation where he has all the
Erose999
Jul 2012
#201
You are allowing yourself to be seduced by the military appearance of the AR-15. Put a scope on it,
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#7
why not be proud he relentlessly laid around until the beast was close enuff then blamo
leftyohiolib
Jul 2012
#22
to compound it, all his buddies are pounding him on the back and buying him rounds
DrDan
Jul 2012
#23
You may be my new favorite DUer. I laughed hysterically upon reading this post.
LonePirate
Jul 2012
#38
A trophy or recognition for a long-distance shot might have been the main goal
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#75
I have done a couple of photo safaris to Kenya - it is remarkable to see these animals in the wild
DrDan
Jul 2012
#145
if he ate that, i wouldn't mind. if he did that just for a trophy head he'd be a sick bastard.
dionysus
Jul 2012
#175
some "sport". lucky for us this d.b. was there to take down the man eating terror that's been
leftyohiolib
Jul 2012
#18
A scoped rifle has been a standard weapon for hunting for well over 100 years
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#60
I've seen a heard of them running. They're amazingly fast, and you can't get close to them.
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#77
The fact that the AR-15 can accept different types of magazines makes it more useful
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#65
I believe the distinction between combat weapons and sporting weapons was drawn correctly in 1934
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#182
It appears you have more of an issue with magazine capacity then with the gun itself
Kaleva
Jul 2012
#10
At longer ranges, the upper gun would be more dangerous in the hands of a bad guy.
Kaleva
Jul 2012
#11
Which crap is it you aren't buying because it appears as if you have no idea.
TheKentuckian
Jul 2012
#144
I don't even own a gun! I'm pointing out how Fing easy it is to turn this thing auto......
wandy
Jul 2012
#40
Laws prohibit the manufacture or importation of guns that can be easily converted to full auto.
Kaleva
Jul 2012
#55
You seem to be another who has more of an issue with the magazine capacity then with the gun itself
Kaleva
Jul 2012
#37
The machine work needed to do a proper conversion requires special equipment and is not simple.
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#53
Methods 1 and 2 require precision machine work, and are no longer available to private citizens
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#52
'Assault rifle' means an automatic or select-fire rifle - i.e., more than one round
petronius
Jul 2012
#33
I'd post a link to a set of photos taken by a guy in Georgia who used a spear to hunt wild pigs
slackmaster
Jul 2012
#64
rifled bullets, as opposed to a shotgun slug, travel vast distances (up to a mile)
dionysus
Jul 2012
#174
C'mon, you're saying policy should be based on the visual design of a gun?
Schema Thing
Jul 2012
#78
Personally, I think anyone attracted to the second gun should be prohibited from owning guns.
Hoyt
Jul 2012
#179