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In reply to the discussion: Supreme Court rules Trump cannot be kicked off Colorado ballot [View all]thesquanderer
(12,049 posts)92. Elections are run by states, but WITHIN the constitutional federal parameters.
In short, states do not have the independent right to determine eligibility for federal office.
You can agree or disagree, but it is not an argument without foundation, as even the partial dissents in this 9-0 decision indicate.
Here are some relevant paragraphs from the decision:
This case raises the question whether the States, in addition to Congress, may also enforce Section 3. We conclude that States may disqualify persons holding or attempting to hold state office. But States have no power under the Constitution to enforce Section 3 with respect to federal offices, especially the Presidency.
Because federal officers owe their existence and functions to the united voice of the whole, not of a portion, of the people, powers over their election and qualifications must be specifically delegated to, rather than reserved by, the States.
the text of the Fourteenth Amendment, on its face, does not affirmatively delegate such a power to the States. The terms of the Amendment speak only to enforcement by Congress, which enjoys power to enforce the Amendment through legislation pursuant to Section 5.
Any state enforcement of Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates...would not derive from Section 5, which confers power only on [t]he Congress.
...state-by-state resolution of the question whether Section 3 bars a particular candidate for President from serving would be quite unlikely to yield a uniform answer consistent with the basic principle that the President. . . represent[s] all the voters in the Nation.
Conflicting state outcomes concerning the same candidate could result not just from differing views of the merits, but from variations in state law governing the proceedings that are necessary to make Section 3 disqualification determinations. Some States might allow a Section 3 challenge to succeed based on a preponderance of the evidence, while others might require a heightened showing. Certain evidence...might be admissible in some States but inadmissible hearsay in others. Disqualification might be possible only through criminal prosecution, as opposed to expedited civil proceedings, in particular States. Indeed, in some Statesunlike Colorado (or Maine, where the secretary of state recently issued an order excluding former President Trump from the primary ballot)procedures for excluding an ineligible candidate from the ballot may not exist at all. The result could well be that a single candidate would be declared ineligible in some States, but not others, based on the same conduct (and perhaps even the same factual record).
Because federal officers owe their existence and functions to the united voice of the whole, not of a portion, of the people, powers over their election and qualifications must be specifically delegated to, rather than reserved by, the States.
the text of the Fourteenth Amendment, on its face, does not affirmatively delegate such a power to the States. The terms of the Amendment speak only to enforcement by Congress, which enjoys power to enforce the Amendment through legislation pursuant to Section 5.
Any state enforcement of Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates...would not derive from Section 5, which confers power only on [t]he Congress.
...state-by-state resolution of the question whether Section 3 bars a particular candidate for President from serving would be quite unlikely to yield a uniform answer consistent with the basic principle that the President. . . represent[s] all the voters in the Nation.
Conflicting state outcomes concerning the same candidate could result not just from differing views of the merits, but from variations in state law governing the proceedings that are necessary to make Section 3 disqualification determinations. Some States might allow a Section 3 challenge to succeed based on a preponderance of the evidence, while others might require a heightened showing. Certain evidence...might be admissible in some States but inadmissible hearsay in others. Disqualification might be possible only through criminal prosecution, as opposed to expedited civil proceedings, in particular States. Indeed, in some Statesunlike Colorado (or Maine, where the secretary of state recently issued an order excluding former President Trump from the primary ballot)procedures for excluding an ineligible candidate from the ballot may not exist at all. The result could well be that a single candidate would be declared ineligible in some States, but not others, based on the same conduct (and perhaps even the same factual record).
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Keep in mind, it might be easier for us to beat Trump in November than some GOP dark horse
Attilatheblond
Mar 2024
#13
100000% this. I'm sure I'll get flamed, but I would rather shithead be on the ballot.
toesonthenose
Mar 2024
#23
That will be attempted no matter WHO the GOP runs at the top of the ballot
Attilatheblond
Mar 2024
#73
No flaming. Because of the media's bias toward generating shareholder profits as opposed to truth in
PatrickforB
Mar 2024
#48
Actually I would blame the ones that wrote that Amendment more than the Court.
cstanleytech
Mar 2024
#122
That's what I'm saying...that another similar case with different plaintiffs or in a November election
wiggs
Mar 2024
#14
Charles Manson was, at one time, an embryo, so I believe he can correctly be considered a person.
mahatmakanejeeves
Mar 2024
#77
Nevertheless, I wonder if the controversy causes some low information voters to cast votes for
wiggs
Mar 2024
#11
Unquestioned by all 9 scotus justices: He engaged in insurrection. He is an oath-taking officer subject to
wiggs
Mar 2024
#84
Many are saying otherwise, that leaving lower court findings of insurrection in place is
wiggs
Mar 2024
#93
They didn't say he isn't an insurrectionist. They didn't say it wasn't an insurrection
Novara
Mar 2024
#12
The question addressed was not whether he was an insurrectionist; it was whether Colorado had the right...
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#80
John H. Christy (State of Georgia) was elected to the US House of Representatives in 1868. After the Georgia Governor
24601
Mar 2024
#116
re: "on what basis did they make that determination. I have yet to see a satisfactory answer to that."
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#117
They didn't say that states can remove representative/senators from the ballot
FBaggins
Mar 2024
#120
Hell, i actually believe TFG DID say he wants to get rid of our constituion.
bluestarone
Mar 2024
#72
I think they're saying that enforcement is up to Congress and not the STATES. n/t
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#74
Elections are run by states, but WITHIN the constitutional federal parameters.
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#92
That's a good counterpoint. There is no constitutional requirement for a candidate to be on the ballot in all states,
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#135
Exactly how Hitler slowly gained more and more power. It didn't happen overnight.
Bengus81
Mar 2024
#27
First you'd have to find a Dem candidate who tried to overthrow the government. n/t
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#83
The question was whether an individual state has the authority to make that determination.
thesquanderer
Mar 2024
#89
Tribe may be a brilliant mind but his partisan bias has gotten to the point where he can no longer be relied upon as an
Midwestern Democrat
Mar 2024
#134
It's not about that part, it's about legislating when none is needed to make it easier to cause an inserrection
lark
Mar 2024
#137
The ballot question had to come before super Tuesday because that is when Colorado has its primary
ripcord
Mar 2024
#123
Guess the state by state votes will show how many traitors there are in each state
Marthe48
Mar 2024
#71
*Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson -- expressed frustration
elleng
Mar 2024
#76
*Justices Sonia Sotomayor, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson -- expressed frustration
elleng
Mar 2024
#79
"The lower court's findings that he did participate in an insurrection is still in force" - that's incorrect
FBaggins
Mar 2024
#109
There has always been a fucking patchwork. Some states do the whole fucking thing by mail. Some fucking don't.
SoFlaBro
Mar 2024
#110
Funny how none of the leaders of the Confederacy were convicted of insurrection
Mysterian
Mar 2024
#112
Sucks but hardly surprising as I suspected it was going to be a overturned.
cstanleytech
Mar 2024
#121