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branford

(4,462 posts)
33. Changing Stand Your Ground Laws might prove very difficult.
Sat Jul 27, 2013, 05:13 AM
Jul 2013

First, Stand Your Ground (SYG), in one form or another, is the prevailing legal framework in most jurisdictions. It is an expansion of the generally popular and accepted "Castle Doctrine" that eliminated the duty to retreat from one's residence before employing lethal force (subject to other usual self-defense standards such as reasonableness, etc.). In many areas prior to the Zimmerman case, and certainly not just conservative states, the trend was to liberalize self-defense statutes with the prevailing notion that a duty to retreat in the face of violence or threats is cowardly or unreasonable. I personally do not see this significantly changing due to one case, no matter how troubling, particularly in "law and order" conservative or purple states. For instance, the new royal baby in England now gets more coverage on many channels than the continuing racial injustice protests.

Second, even states that do not have a SYG statutes are nevertheless SYG jurisdictions by way of common law (judicial interpretation of statutes and state and federal constitutional requirements). I believe that California is a SYG state even though it has a liberal judiciary and no written SYG statute. Similarly, SYG is also the rule in all federal matters and jurisdictions due to federal common law. If Eric Holder prosecutes Zimmerman for a criminal civil rights violation, even if it could be definitively proven that he targeted Trayvon due to race, Zimmerman could still prevail under a self-defense theory not much different than in Florida. In states and jurisdictions that interpret their constitutions under a SYG framework, changing a statute would be insufficient to eliminate SYG. It would require a completely new (and very unlikely) re-evaluation of many decades of common law.

Third, the duty to retreat in non-SYG jurisdiction is often illusory. There are often various exceptions to the duty and one only has to retreat when absolutely certain that they would incur no risk of injury. As a legal matter, this is an extremely difficult burden. As a practical matter at trial, except in very unusual circumstances, juries often ignore the requirement or it is not applicable. Can you imagine the outcry if a potential rape victim had to explain at trial, or worse prove, why she didn't try hard enough to escape her large, yet unarmed attacker, before using lethal force to defend herself. Another more concrete example is the case of Bernie Goetz in my hometown of NYC. Even with a determined prosecutor, diverse jury in Manhattan and sympathetic press coverage, he was only found guilty of possessing an illegal handgun. Prosecutors like to win cases and have a great deal of charging discretion. This is precisely why controversial self-defense cases often never see a courtroom (as was the case with the original Zimmerman prosecutor) or the State only makes a token attempt before a grand jury, and then blames them when they fail to issue an indictment.

Fourth, never forget the proposition that bad cases make bad law. Minorities are often both the victims and perpetrators of crime and both are also often treated poorly by the judicial system. Regardless of your feelings about Zimmerman (and I largely agree), shifting the burdens of proof, giving prosecutors even more discretion and generally making life even more difficult for defendants, will ultimately harm the minority defendants we seek to protect. We do not want to make life harder for the Trayvon Martins of the world in a quest to punish the George Zimmermans.

I would never discourage anyone from peacefully pursuing their political goals. However, I personally believe that the most productive and realistic approach to curbing the inappropriate application of self-defense laws, regardless of SYG, is to mandate by statute proper police training and procedures, including collection of evidence, medical examination and tests for alcohol and drug use, interrogation procedures, etc. If the police could face civil penalty for failing to follow such procedures, the rate of careless or negligent investigations would precipitously drop, and improper self-defense claims dealt with more effectively. Recall that Trayvon's hands were not bagged to preserve DNA evidence and Zimmerman was not tested for illegal or impairing substances. I also believe that such standardized procedures would face far less opposition in conservative states than the attempted elimination of SYG.

Another avenue to explore is the contentious gun rights issue. Regardless of my personal opinions, the Supreme Court has guaranteed that for the foreseeable future that handguns will be legal and accessible. Even Illinois is now a shall issue, concealed carry state. State mandated classroom and range training in self-defense laws and techniques as a prerequisite to gun ownership is likely constitutional and may prevent some avoidable tragedies.

Edit: Sorry about the long post. I was working on a legal brief earlier this afternoon, and my legal and persuasive juices were flowing. Also, thanks for the welcome.

Enjoy prison asshole. n/t jtuck004 Jul 2013 #1
What's he going to prison for doing? pipoman Jul 2013 #47
He is in one of his own making. I think, (hope, anyway) that he gets the upgrade to jtuck004 Jul 2013 #49
That's nice. Turbineguy Jul 2013 #2
hilarious he has to be protected from.......people like him Skittles Jul 2013 #3
And how about a set of EYEGLASSES, too? raging moderate Jul 2013 #4
Just a sense of decency would be great. mbperrin Jul 2013 #7
Totally agree. I still can't believe people think that was Z's scream on the tape. SunSeeker Jul 2013 #12
No way! TRoN33 Jul 2013 #5
Mmm, if money is raised for "security" and is spent on lawyers instead, mbperrin Jul 2013 #6
We do live in a free society Iliyah Jul 2013 #8
Free to murder black kids. That's for sure. nt onehandle Jul 2013 #9
I hope they are planning to house him in Ohio, too. We don't need him in Florida... especially 1monster Jul 2013 #10
Yes please! I hear Ohio is so nice this time of year. coeur_de_lion Jul 2013 #30
Gun Humpers stick together, no matter how stupid the cause. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2013 #11
+1 Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #45
A fool and his money are soon parted. OldRedneck Jul 2013 #13
I would be willing to bet that group has never raised a dime for some real charity--a soup kitchen, niyad Jul 2013 #14
Agreed! perdita9 Jul 2013 #18
Nice! Maybe the fucker can splurge on a tank if they get enough donors. Autumn Jul 2013 #15
Trayvon's parents will recover them in court Generic Other Jul 2013 #16
Unfortunately, civil recovery is unlikely. branford Jul 2013 #20
Justice turns a blind eye Generic Other Jul 2013 #21
Thanks for the welcome! branford Jul 2013 #23
Maybe he'll shoot himself with the donated guns Generic Other Jul 2013 #24
I'm rooting for an OJ ending--reduced to thieving and jailed Kennah Jul 2013 #28
Good......may he have to look over his shoulder for a long, long time...he will pay in some way, Gin Jul 2013 #40
Welcome to DU, branford! calimary Jul 2013 #31
Changing Stand Your Ground Laws might prove very difficult. branford Jul 2013 #33
Couldn't agree more.. pipoman Jul 2013 #48
The law protects even those whom we despise . . . branford Jul 2013 #50
Yep.. pipoman Jul 2013 #51
Civil rights and liberties are not inconsistent with law and order branford Jul 2013 #52
Keeping weapons in the hands of unstable people perdita9 Jul 2013 #17
Oh the things people will donate to. liberal N proud Jul 2013 #19
It's a publicity stunt by those dumbasses to recruit more members...eom Kolesar Jul 2013 #22
I much prefer your headline! nt valerief Jul 2013 #25
Giving money so this psychopath can buy guns davidpdx Jul 2013 #26
They want him to do it again. tblue Jul 2013 #27
"Gun people" isn't a term that lends itself to a universally-accepted definition. To clarify your 24601 Jul 2013 #39
You. tblue Jul 2013 #41
Thanks for clarifying that watching a game had a higher priority. It is inaccurate to infer I asked 24601 Jul 2013 #42
There is a bright side to this Kennah Jul 2013 #29
Brilliant idea 1Greensix Jul 2013 #32
No heaven05 Jul 2013 #36
Rec for Alt Headline. joshcryer Jul 2013 #34
what heaven05 Jul 2013 #35
I hope the IRS is on top of all of these "donations". nt Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #37
Stop it Ohio... JohnnyRingo Jul 2013 #38
NRA group with a PAC and member insurance when you kill someone. Sunlei Jul 2013 #43
Meanwhile, there are homeless people. shenmue Jul 2013 #44
And people wonder why I both distrust and ridicule humpers. LanternWaste Jul 2013 #46
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