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Denzil_DC

(7,255 posts)
22. Now you REALLY are trying my patience, as if you hadn't already.
Sun Nov 12, 2017, 11:09 PM
Nov 2017

I haven't even mentioned in this thread the SNP or the situation in Scotland or how I would vote - you have!

And this thread wasn't even about Brexit, so I don't know why you brought it up.


This is your perennial fucking problem right there.

The issue of Brexit would be absolutely inescapable in any "snap election" such as you seem so keen on. That's why I brought it up.

It overshadows the lives of we who actually LIVE in the UK, rather than having the luxury of observing and passing opinion on it from an ocean away.

Everything else hinges on it, and Labour has no answers to the problems we face at the moment, which is why people like T_i_B above feel "they don't look a whole lot more competent than the Tories".

That's a major problem, as even with the utter clusterfuck among the Tories at the moment, Labour is barely polling ahead, no matter how rosy you imagine the situation.

You and Labour can produce wishlists of all these lovely social programmes, nationalization, de-privatizing the NHS (in England and Wales, that's already almost a lost battle, BTW) etc., but if the economy's on the rocks because we don't have a pre-Brexit strategy as a country, let alone a post-Brexit one, and crops are literally rotting in the fields (as they already are) because of shortage of labour, then none of it can happen and the country faces unprecedented economic disaster and being at the mercy of the likes of Trump and any number of predatory overseas investors and prospective trade partners.

And - as with the 2008 crash - guess which party might have to carry the can if there is another election before final Brexit. Only this time, the blame might be more fairly attributed.

All these pressures are only going to get worse as Brexit approaches ever closer by the day and neither of the parties with any prospect of taking power shows any sign of getting to grips with the many, probably irresolvable, challenges it poses.

Hell, my brief suggestion earlier up there about seeking a justifiable reset to the Brexit process by a new government so that the proper preparations can be done (I suspect the EU would be all in favour, as the EU negotiators' incredulity and impatience at the lack of any plan at all from the UK beyond "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "we want to have our cake and eat it" is obvious) is a hell of a lot more coherent than anything I've heard out of Labour.

I don't expect coherence from the Tories, but then they don't need it, as they're in power, and at the moment show signs of being quite relieved at the prospect of not being in government as the shit finally hits the fan.

Labour can only fudge this issue - as it did at the last election and has done since - for so long before it starts to drop in the polls again. It can't rely solely on Tory incompetence to be elected. If it could, it would be rocketing ahead of them at the moment. It isn't.

Deal with it. Oh. You don't have to, because you live in a different country.
Until the government collapses T_i_B Nov 2017 #1
As much as I want the Tories out, I also want the DUP to face electoral punishment over this Ken Burch Nov 2017 #2
I don't think the DUP would be punished by voters for this LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #3
Well, times change, but this was from 2010: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #4
A snap election can't come soon enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #5
I wouldn't credit the DUP with that much T_i_B Nov 2017 #6
I'd like to see quite a bit more clear water between the Tories and Labour Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #7
I'm for even more clear water than there is, although there's a lot more than previously. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #8
The latest poll I've seen showed Labour 3 points ahead. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #11
In theory, Labour should be much further ahead in the polls T_i_B Nov 2017 #12
I think at times recently Labour have been providing a more effective opposition. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #13
OK, somehow I hadn't see this earlier. I'll respond now. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #23
I've addressed pretty much all this at quite some length below. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #28
I thought I owed it to you to respond to this post when I saw it. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #29
You would agree that any continued anti-Corbyn efforts, including expulsions of his supporters, Ken Burch Nov 2017 #20
No. T_i_B Nov 2017 #37
To clarify, I wasn't condemning every single expulsion. Misogynists should be expelled. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #40
Wrong T_i_B Nov 2017 #41
OK...you can't seriously argue that there are people who are antiracist AND antisemitic. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #42
You really don't have experience of people in real life do you? T_i_B Nov 2017 #43
I have plenty of experence in real life. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #44
Given that you keep posting the same old theoretical bollocks T_i_B Nov 2017 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Nov 2017 #49
I haven't mentioned the EU once on this thread T_i_B Nov 2017 #50
I have read the other posts...I'm sorry I misdirected that response to you. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #51
Christ, have you never ever misread something? Ken Burch Nov 2017 #53
I've met some. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #46
Oh...to clarify...by "clear blue water", I thought you meant policy differences. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #14
Do you not actually read anything anybody posts? T_i_B Nov 2017 #15
I read what he posted. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #21
In that particular post, I was plainly referring to clear water in terms of polling. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #16
You seem to think I'm a closet Leaver Ken Burch Nov 2017 #17
Bleedin' Ada. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #18
I'm only speaking for myself, and am not trying to convince you personally, Denzil. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #19
Now you REALLY are trying my patience, as if you hadn't already. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #22
OK, a reset is a good idea. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #24
It would also help if you'd stop making major edits to your posts after you've written them. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #25
Fair enough. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #26
Well, it mattered a bit more this time because you added questions to the end. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #27
When I started this thread, I never meant to get into Brexit. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #30
I didn't say that I thought a reset was a great idea. Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #31
I don't disagree with a single thing you've said there. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #32
Well, to return to my entry to this discussion, Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #33
OK. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #34
The problem is this: Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #38
Denzil, I'm not trying to persuade YOU to vote Labour. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #39
Why do you think Labour's support would plummet if it supported Remain? LeftishBrit Nov 2017 #35
I DON'T condemn Labour's support for Remain in the referendum. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #36
"I do think it's time that people stop blaming Corbyn for the Leave victory" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #47
Look, this all started because I honestly misunderstood what Denzil meant by "clear blue water". Ken Burch Nov 2017 #48
Jeebus. This "small group of you that post in the UK group" Denzil_DC Nov 2017 #54
Wasn't meaning to lecture...I respect your views on the EU and truly wasn't challenging them. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #55
OK...I misread it. In terms of UK politics, I'm used to seeing the term "clear blue water" Ken Burch Nov 2017 #52
She'll call an election The King of Prussia Nov 2017 #9
I thought she would have done it around october syringis Nov 2017 #10
Ok. I live in England and from NI so I have opinions on both these things....... Soph0571 Nov 2017 #56
Thank you for that. there's a fair amount of things in there I didn't know. Ken Burch Nov 2017 #57
Unfortunately the community is divided and always will be Soph0571 Nov 2017 #58
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