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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
10. Here's my take: One, it IS an issue to SOME Feminists, because they consider it one.
Sun May 20, 2012, 10:04 PM
May 2012

I mean, whether or not other people think it is a legitimate issue, or whether or not one agrees with their assessments of it, or think their arguments are valid... they believe it's an issue, so to them, by definition, it's an "issue".

My take is very simple: Consenting Adults. Is everyone involved a consenting adult? Is everyone watching a consenting adult? Then it's not anyone else's business. That goes to my core beliefs about letting people make their own decisions, control their own bodies, decide for themselves about sex and reproduction, etc. The reason it comes up around here, I think, is because unlike other issues of what I consider personal self-determination, like the right of the terminally ill to control their end of life destiny, say, or the drug war, or reproductive choice, or equal rights for GLBT citizens, I think is because there are people whose ideology have led them to believe that this is the one case where "yes, but, unless" applies. The place where it's okay to put an asterisk after choice.

Yes, women should be able to control their bodies, but/unless they decide to have sex in front of a camera. Then they're not really consenting, they don't know what they're doing, they're unable to make up their own minds.

Yes, I'm pro choice*... *as long as I agree with the choice.

It causes friction not just because it bangs up against (and yes, Archer, I'm aware of the phrasing again) the 1st Amendment, but also because it so glaringly conflicts with those areas where there IS wide agreement on the left. Most people on the left, those not involved with the pharma industry or the Drug War/Industrial complex, at least, acknowledge that pot prohibition is a massive failure, and it's probably time to end it. You would be hard pressed to find too many folks who really oppose letting the terminally ill have a pain free exit on their own terms, outside of the religious right.

Yet, as I said, there has been an ideological strain that has convinced some people on the left that censoring depictions of consensual sex acts is a societal good, even necessity. It is, to my mind, a glaring philosophical contradiction with everything I believe progressivism and liberalism are supposed to be about.


Lastly, casey, let me add this: I have made a personal note to myself to try to move away from anything that could be construed as personal name-calling on this board, in an effort to try to relax some of the stress and bad feelings that have been going around lately. If it were me, I might not use the word "prudes" in my op in such a way that anyone HERE might infer that you were talking about them, personally. Obviously, we can't control how people interpret things.. I found out last night that my snap, crackle, pop OP, which was a spoof on the M&M thread- was being taken as a personal attack by some people. That said, I can't control how you express yourself, nor do I want to. But for me, while I might believe strongly that prudishness drives some of these agendas, I wouldn't use the label 'prudes'. We can attack the concepts and the opinions without insulting people.

Just my 2 cents.

Your premise seems to be that people who don't like porn don't like sex. Scuba May 2012 #1
No, that's not my premise. caseymoz May 2012 #2
Conjecture, your honor. Scuba May 2012 #4
So, I offend them. caseymoz May 2012 #5
I agree. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #7
Here's what has been noted scientifically: caseymoz May 2012 #11
And your citations for these claims are your memory???? Scuba May 2012 #23
You're shocked! Shocked! caseymoz May 2012 #25
Everyone eats food. Not everyone enjoys food, and fewer still read about food. NYC_SKP May 2012 #3
I would say that's the major basis of it. caseymoz May 2012 #9
In my experience, porn is primarily a 2nd wave jawbone with which to beat men. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #6
No means no caseymoz May 2012 #8
Here's my take: One, it IS an issue to SOME Feminists, because they consider it one. Warren DeMontague May 2012 #10
Snap Crackle and Pop was taken as a personal attack? Gore1FL May 2012 #12
It reads like satire, doesn't it? Warren DeMontague May 2012 #13
Let me guess... Gore1FL May 2012 #15
If I didn't say "prude" I'd have to come up with another term. caseymoz May 2012 #17
A good point . . . caseymoz May 2012 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Upton May 2012 #14
I think there are a lot of issues at work here.. Upton May 2012 #16
it can be. improving the life of sex workers and creating laws to prohibit La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #18
That's the way it should work. caseymoz May 2012 #19
yeah but i dont think it has to do with low sex drives. it has to do with a belief La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #24
Well, there is that. caseymoz May 2012 #26
This is an interesting post. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #31
Maybe I should clarify 'low sex drive.' caseymoz May 2012 #33
As we are all no doubt aware, "Feminist" thought is by no means uniform on this issue. Warren DeMontague May 2012 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2012 #21
porn goes back to the paleolithic art. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #27
Well, sure, who wants to just draw antelope all day? Warren DeMontague May 2012 #28
And there we people disturbed by it then. caseymoz May 2012 #29
I don't care if someone doesn't like porn ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2012 #30
Masturbation was disgusting to her? 4th law of robotics May 2012 #32
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