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In reply to the discussion: Was this really necessary? [View all]Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)85. Couple things. One, Gary Johnson is pretty different from Ed Meese.
Two, it only matters as to "how someone labels themselves" when it is part of a disingenuous and dishonest pattern of debate, particularly when trying to conflate disagreement with the extreme parts of the agenda of outliers with "bigotry" against a larger group- like Creationists saying "we're Christians" (technically true) but then turning around and portraying all criticism of Creationism as "Christian Bashing".
I wrote out an example of this sort of thing a while back, it kind of sums up why it matters:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2601779
553. Here's a totally made up example of the sort of logic at play:
1) Hoznofsters call themselves Flimshotters, even though Hoznofsters have a history of criticizing large swaths of other Flimshotters, telling Flimshotters they're not REAL Flimshotters, using derisive terms for other Flimshotters -like "Funflims"- who don't agree to all the Hoznofster definitions of what constitutes "real" Flimshottery, etc.
2) However... when experiencing general, widespread rebuke or -ever worse- open mockery and notbeingtakenseriouslyenough,dammit-ry... Hoznofsters will, however, immediately claim that "Flimshotters are under attack!" and even better, since Flimshotters -the larger group- are known primarily as arguing for equal rights for Wagglehorns, this allows the Hoznofster to move the argument onto a favorable playing field, because really everyone who is at all reasonable believes Wagglehorns ought to have equal rights.
3) Next move is to point out that a widely despised, if ill-defined, group- let's call them Mrazplotzes--- are known for criticizing Flimshotters.
You know what that means, right? If Mrazplotzes criticize Flimshotters and we've established by assertion that Hoznofster=Flimshotter... then everyone who criticizes a Hoznofster MUST BE a dread Mrazplotz!
It's logic!
1) Hoznofsters call themselves Flimshotters, even though Hoznofsters have a history of criticizing large swaths of other Flimshotters, telling Flimshotters they're not REAL Flimshotters, using derisive terms for other Flimshotters -like "Funflims"- who don't agree to all the Hoznofster definitions of what constitutes "real" Flimshottery, etc.
2) However... when experiencing general, widespread rebuke or -ever worse- open mockery and notbeingtakenseriouslyenough,dammit-ry... Hoznofsters will, however, immediately claim that "Flimshotters are under attack!" and even better, since Flimshotters -the larger group- are known primarily as arguing for equal rights for Wagglehorns, this allows the Hoznofster to move the argument onto a favorable playing field, because really everyone who is at all reasonable believes Wagglehorns ought to have equal rights.
3) Next move is to point out that a widely despised, if ill-defined, group- let's call them Mrazplotzes--- are known for criticizing Flimshotters.
You know what that means, right? If Mrazplotzes criticize Flimshotters and we've established by assertion that Hoznofster=Flimshotter... then everyone who criticizes a Hoznofster MUST BE a dread Mrazplotz!
It's logic!
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i like sigmasix. he is a thinker. i can always appreciate that in agreement or not. nt
seabeyond
Apr 2013
#5
I don't want to continue this debate, because it has no bearing on the article in question
seabeyond
Apr 2013
#12
I have made an official complaint against this group, History of Feminism, in ask the admins forum
quinnox
Apr 2013
#16
I had one yesterday where someone was following a DU member around throwing a quote from one of
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#34
I think if you want to reply to a post that contains the words "lately"
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#90
Surprisingly enough, the "examples" of "sexism and misogyny" mostly seem to be, instead,
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#52
Ahh... but you see, apparently the sock thing was all an innocent misunderstanding..
opiate69
Apr 2013
#60
Her "research" and groups affiliated with her have been repeatedly promoted on DU
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#37
Most of us do that. For instance, I am a staunch supporter of choice, reproductive freedom, equality
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#68
Yeah, I'm supposed to be one even though I'd never heard the term until people complained about it.
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#73
I remember a story in the early 80s about someone's friend who was a very blissed out
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#83
Exactly. But logical fallacies abound on DU, particularly in certain corners.
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2013
#87