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caraher

(6,278 posts)
7. And it's even worse than that
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 10:21 AM
Aug 2016

Given that you've produced said renewable energy, forming the hydrogen and then recombining with oxygen in the fuel cells are two independent steps, neither of which is terribly efficient. You wind up throwing most of that energy away.

At least using that renewable energy to charge a battery you can easily use 80-85% of it to move a vehicle (limited mainly by charging efficiency). With fuel cells, we'll be lucky if the two steps (electrolysis and fuel cell operation) ever reach 70% each, guaranteeing the loss of half the energy by the time you take that renewable energy and put it to use.

There will likely be circumstances where that loss does not matter, but since battery EVs already perform well enough to meet the needs of most drivers in daily use, electricity distribution infrastructure actually exists, and the overall process is more efficient, a big push for hydrogen right now would mainly have the effect of supporting and expanding the continued extraction of the fossil hydrocarbons that will remain the chief source of hydrogen for the foreseeable future. Using renewable energy for transportation doesn't have to wait for a less-efficient infrastructure to be created.

This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Aug 2016 #1
Actually, since so called "renewable energy" is an expensive failure... NNadir Aug 2016 #3
I'm a strong supporter of alternative and renewable fuels, but hydrogen scares the hell out of me. tonyt53 Aug 2016 #2
Don't worry about it. People have been running this hydrogen scam for generations. NNadir Aug 2016 #4
Do you trust gasoline-powered cars? OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #9
That's why we LWolf Aug 2016 #5
"When produced using renewable energy" progressoid Aug 2016 #6
And it's even worse than that caraher Aug 2016 #7
Or maybe not OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #10
I don't see the immediate relevance to transportation, the subject of the OP caraher Aug 2016 #13
Relevance to the OP OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #14
Or maybe not OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #11
That 86% figure is pretty squirrely caraher Aug 2016 #12
Do other forms of recovered energy not count then? OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #15
Southeast Asia’s First Renewable Hydrogen-Based Energy Storage and Power Plant Awarded to Hydrogeni… OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #16
We're over 400 ppm of CO2 permanently and we're still focusing on this piddling... NNadir Aug 2016 #17
18 trillion watts (18 million megawatts) for a year = 570 exajoules, I think progree Aug 2016 #18
You are correct. In my anger at the stupidity of the post, I left out the "Mega" prefix... NNadir Aug 2016 #19
So in 30 years, hydrogen cars might be as cheap to drive as electric cars are today??? NickB79 Aug 2016 #8
Only if there are no improvements in battery storage technology over that 30 years.. mackdaddy Aug 2016 #20
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Hydrogen cost could equal...»Reply #7