Vermont Yankee: A Nuclear Battle Over States’ Rights

[PamW]

20. National Academy of Sciences.

your original claim said this: "The USA's best scientists at the National Academy of Science and Engineering have said that we can get at most about 15% to 20% of our electric power from renewables" (your post #38). In my post #59 I called you on that and provided the actual NAS quote
Brother, I don't see why you have such a difficult time comprehending this.
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Because I understand the science and what the National Academy is saying. I provided you the link, but you don't remember.

The National Academy of Sciences made it very plain in:

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12619&page=258

A grid can support some intermittent resources without electricity storage if sufficient excess capacity is available to maintain resource adequacy. As described below and in Chapter 7, in many cases the amount of intermittent renewable resources that can be supported is approximately 20 percent, particularly for utilities that rely primarily on hydropower or natural-gas-fired generation. Hydropower and natural-gas-fired plants can ramp levels of generation up or down fairly rapidly, and are able to incorporate a higher fraction of renewables ...

A grid can only support, i.e. "have"; 20% intermittent renewables ( wind / solar ).

You continue to tell the same LIE that the National Academy only started studying energy in 2007. They've been studying the energy issue about every five years for DECADES now. Just because they don't have the 2004 report online doesn't mean it doesn't exist. NAP.edu states that they don't have all the NAS reports online. Just go to a LIBRARY of a good University with an engineering school.

For example, here is one from 1980 which DISPROVES your contention that they only began studying energy in 2007:

Energy in Transition 1985-2010
Publication Year: 1980

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11771

I don't see why you and others have such a difficult time understanding the limits to solar and wind.

Let's suppose we do what you want; we go 100% with solar and wind over the entire US. Suppose it is night, and a big high pressure system covers most of the USA; so there's very little wind. Wind is created not by high pressure but by pressure differences. If all the region is at high pressure, you don't have differentials.

Now people do need electric power at night. Practically every house has a refrigerator and that needs to have power available continuously or the food spoils. But with little or no wind, and zero solar because it is night; where does the energy come from for refrigerators at night????

We do NOT have electric grid ties to the other side of the globe. All the fancy "smart grid" technology can't make energy.

Unless you have some energy storage; you are screwed. That's what the National Academy is saying.

If solar / wind are less than 20% of the mix; then the other 80% of the power generation facilities that are continuous "on demand" can back-stop the intermittent wind and solar.

However, if solar / wind are greater than 20%; then the less than 80% that is "on demand" can't back-stop the larger fraction of intermittent power.

PamW