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progree

(11,463 posts)
15. I'm not claiming that battery backup is a good solution to all power system issues
Wed Dec 13, 2023, 12:15 PM
Dec 2023

It would be astronomically infeasibly expensive to build batteries to back up a system that simply does not have enough generation that either can be ramped up or put online, and has no ties to other grids that can provide the power, e.g. the Texas system.

As I mentioned in #6 I wrote about the limitations, compared to a generation source, and in particular about the Texas situation:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127170924
I wouldn't say the batteries are just useful for a "local" outage. They can help the grid as a whole recover from a plant tripping offline until there's time to get other generation going. (Hopefully there will be other generation offline that can be started and put online -- or already online whose output can be ramped up -- that's usually the case, but might not be the case in Texas during peak conditions).

and this remark about batteries compared to generating plants:

And 4 hours (if these are 4 hour batteries) is not a lot of storage (whereas Prairie Island generates its capacity 24/7/365 with more than 90% capacity factor).

NNadir has written about how, to cover something like the German Dunkleflaute of November - December 2022,

"The 266.4 M Poweralls required for the 30 days in Germany would be 31.6 times the world production of cobalt in 2021." (the 30 days is 11/15 - 12/14/22) https://www.democraticunderground.com/1127158224

I'm not a battery fanatic. That said, they can help with some system issues that I've covered in this thread, and if one has a battery pack on the system, it can and should be utilized.

I'd guess that the utilities that added a battery pack to extend the ability of a solar system to cover high system loads near and after sundown (#12 above) did an economic and performance analysis of that vs. other solutions (like building more gas turbine units). It's possible that the analysts and decision makers were a bunch of ring-a-ding-dongs that made their decision based on ideological biases, but I think that's unlikely.

As for batteries losing a lot of their capability in the cold, I live in Minnesota so I'm well aware of that.

K&R Think. Again. Dec 2023 #1
The Texas legislature and no doubt the governor are not happy about this woke power stuff progree Dec 2023 #2
The condundrum that renewable energy hating Texas politicians find themselves in... Finishline42 Dec 2023 #3
Batteries store eneregy, not power. Progressive dog Dec 2023 #5
They deliver their rated power for a few hours, typically 4 hours or so from articles I've read progree Dec 2023 #6
The bttery cost is approximately proportional to Progressive dog Dec 2023 #7
The power rating is also important. A battery could store a gazillion GWH of energy, but if it can only deliver progree Dec 2023 #8
It takes exactly the same amount Progressive dog Dec 2023 #9
I've been in the power supply planning and superintendant of operational planning of an electric utility for many years progree Dec 2023 #10
Battery back up is not for minute long outages. Progressive dog Dec 2023 #11
No, but other already online generation (and batteries) can be ramped up (the spinning reserve) . And gas turbines can progree Dec 2023 #12
Texas had an avoidable power failure in 2021 Progressive dog Dec 2023 #14
I'm not claiming that battery backup is a good solution to all power system issues progree Dec 2023 #15
So 24 hours of the shortfall in Germany Progressive dog Dec 2023 #18
Of course Powerwalls specify the energy storage. progree Dec 2023 #20
They cannot say trhat power is equivalent to energy Progressive dog Dec 2023 #17
I never said power is equivalent to energy. I SAID THE POWER RATING OF A BATTERY PACK AND progree Dec 2023 #19
NREL: The Four Phases of Storage Deployment: A Framework for the Expanding Role of Storage in the U.S. Power System OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #16
Texas is not going green. hunter Dec 2023 #4
Texas Net Electricity Generation by Source, Jun. 2023 OKIsItJustMe Dec 2023 #13
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Texas goes green: How oil...»Reply #15