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ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
13. Oh dear...
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 07:31 PM
Nov 2013

...you may want to consider taking a remedial course in logic.

You say "the only reason European countries can have greater for their countries" (by which I presume you mean, "can have greater renewable capacity for their countries&quot , "is that they lean on French nukes."

But whatever traditional energy source they are leaning on at present for the remainder of their power -- and for 24/7 capability -- it is still the case that relative to the US, the countries I mentioned have a large part of their demand being addressed RIGHT NOW by renewables -- and all the ones I noted are ABOVE the 20% that the NAS claims is the MOST we can hope to do. These are real, already-existing counterexamples to the NAS claim. Or are you claiming that the US gets less sunshine and wind per acre than Germany and Denmark?

As for Lovins, here is one paragraph from the RMI site:

"After two years at Harvard, Mr. Lovins transferred to Oxford, and two years later became a don at 21, receiving in consequence an Oxford ma by Special Resolution (1971) and, later, 12 honorary doctorates of various U.S. and U.K. universities. He has been Regents’ Lecturer at the U. of California both in Energy and Resources and in Economics; Grauer Lecturer at the University of British Columbia; Luce Visiting Professor at Dartmouth; Distinguished Visiting Scholar at the University of Oklahoma; Distinguished Visiting Professor at the University of Colorado; Oikos Visiting Professor of Business, University of St. Gallen; an engineering visiting professor at Peking U.; 2007 MAP/Ming Professor at Stanford’s School of Engineering; and 2011– Professor of Practice at the Naval Postgraduate School."

(...)

"An $18-million utility experiment he cofounded and -steered in the 1990s, PG&E’s “ACT2,” validated his claim that very large energy savings could cost less than small or no savings, e.g. in houses comfortable with no air conditioner at up to +46ºC (+115°F) yet costing less to build."

(highlights mine)

I presume you must hold more credentials than Lovins, given your obvious contempt for him? Have you been invited to lecture at UC, Dartmouth, Stanford, University of BC, University of Oklahoma -- well let's just simplify, please let us in on your own illustrious career so we can compare and contrast. Have you worked with real companies and helped them to garner real energy efficiencies, saving them millions of dollars?

I note that you did not REFUTE one single factual bit of information presented in his very information- and detail-filled video. I also note you do not address the FACT that these energy efficiency gains and use of renewables are ALREADY BEING DONE. Because it's hard to refute REALITY, isn't it?

We have some very important choices facing us. We can invest heavily in nuke plants, shale oil drilling and so-called "clean coal"; or we can implement systems solutions that rely on more efficient usage, renewable generation, and distributed power grids. Your shrill polemics notwithstanding, there are real and viable alternatives to nuclear energy.

SCIENCE says you are WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #1
Please provide links to your statistics. Common sense says that you are wrong. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #5
BALONEY!!! PamW Nov 2013 #7
Do you trust the World Nuclear Association on design life? caraher Nov 2013 #8
WRONG!!! PamW Nov 2013 #11
It isn't ambiguous: "...designed for 30 or 40-year operating lives" kristopher Nov 2013 #32
Vessel lifetime PamW Nov 2013 #33
Your "WRONG" was wrong kristopher Nov 2013 #34
NOT in the SLIGHTEST!!! PamW Dec 2013 #42
Right, you aren't slightly wrong you are completely and demonstrably wrong. kristopher Dec 2013 #43
Proof by assertion again..???? PamW Dec 2013 #44
I like your third person use of "the progressives" caraher Dec 2013 #46
Wow! I was hoping to have a nice discussion but you went nuclear. rhett o rick Nov 2013 #15
Well, it's true.. PamW Nov 2013 #21
See http://www.democraticunderground.com/112756356 kristopher Nov 2013 #9
SCIENCE says that? Really? ljm2002 Nov 2013 #10
BALONEY!!! PamW Nov 2013 #12
Oh dear... ljm2002 Nov 2013 #13
Another "environmentalist" that doesn't understand the NAS PamW Nov 2013 #14
I can't help it... ljm2002 Nov 2013 #17
The above DELUSIONS are all in your head... PamW Nov 2013 #18
Nuclear Power is the right thing to do. PamW Nov 2013 #28
Nuclear and coal with CCS are poor choices to address climate change kristopher Nov 2013 #36
YAWN!!! Jacobsen again; and not even fresh; old 2009 "vintage"... PamW Dec 2013 #45
Don't buy the false claim about the NAS kristopher Nov 2013 #16
Kristopher is so familiar with the study... PamW Nov 2013 #19
OK, you redeemed yourself a bit with this: GliderGuider Nov 2013 #20
Only the CENSORED version from kristopher PamW Nov 2013 #22
DO I have it right, IIRC FogerRox Nov 2013 #23
It has to do with the stability of the grid PamW Nov 2013 #25
What do the National Academies of Science and Engineering say about our energy future? kristopher Nov 2013 #30
We can alway count on kristopher... PamW Nov 2013 #31
LOGIC says you are wrong (and so are the nuclear evangelists) GliderGuider Nov 2013 #2
That should be "Invalid logic" in your title kristopher Nov 2013 #3
I don't argue with evangelists any more. I just point out that there is no God... GliderGuider Nov 2013 #4
and that our species can't even come close to substituting for Him MisterP Nov 2013 #29
No Nukes colsohlibgal Nov 2013 #6
Yeah. Apparently. That's why we've had cheering for this rich boy's fantasy for 60 years... NNadir Nov 2013 #24
Well, many countries are pressing ahead with alternative energy sources claras Nov 2013 #26
China isn't a great example FBaggins Nov 2013 #27
The Answer to Climate Change Is Neither Renewable Energy, Nor Nuclear Power GliderGuider Nov 2013 #35
Also over the past decade renewables began to achieve grid parity kristopher Nov 2013 #37
The picture isn't much better when "energy" is restricted to electricity GliderGuider Nov 2013 #38
Judging by that off point answer you don't seem to know what primary energy is kristopher Nov 2013 #39
That's why the last one wasn't in terms of primary energy, but electricity. GliderGuider Nov 2013 #40
And you still ignore the main point raised against your OP kristopher Nov 2013 #41
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