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Gun Control & RKBA
In reply to the discussion: A discussion of rifle ammunition bans and .223/M855 murders, by the numbers. [View all]AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)113. I agree with Erza's comment.
"I can tell you have never shot a rifle-caliber stockless "pistol". You are talking about trying to put two or three bullets through the same hole a couple dozen feet away, after handicapping yourself with a stockless, wobbly goofball of a firearm that kicks like a .30 caliber and has the muzzle flash of a .50 even though it's a .22. The recoil of the first shot will walk the muzzle off that dime-sized spot you are trying to shoot. "
That's a very apt analogy.
Also highlights additional cost to the shorter barrel.
1. Fireball. ("Did you hit him?" "I dunno, but he was smoking when he ran out of here"
2. Lower muzzle velocity, meaning it's not going to penetrate a vest like the same round from a 16" barrel. Because it's not going to go as fast, because it's not going to pick up as much momentum, etc. Dwell time in the barrel translates to velocity, and anything that spills out as a fireball represents momentum from the gas pulse that didn't go into the bullet.
So yeah, making a .22 kick like a .30 is apt.
Wobbly is accurate too, because you have to consider the mass of the rifle-sized bolt slamming back and forth, which is going to weigh, oh, just spitballing it, probably 5-7x what an actual pistol bolt weighs. Probably more.
There's a reason that, I'm pretty sure, not a single military in the world has ever gone 'hey, you know what would be really cool? Let's hack our rifles down into pistols'.
No, they use submachine guns for that purpose (Which fire pistol ammo). And they are not armor piercing without special ammo.
Edit: Truly sorry, didn't answer part of your question.
Not sure what you're contending here; you say a stockless handgun shooting .223 has less kickback than an ar15 or m16? I'll ask straw man to comment on this.
More. Way more. The barrel is shorter, and the mass leaves the barrel sooner, but all that hot gas comes out the other end like propellant burning from the thrust end of a rocket exhaust nozzle. I was trying to acknowledge that there are countervailing forces in play, but they are by no means equal. Meaning, they don't cancel each other out. The expanding gas doesn't cease to exist as the bullet exits the barrel. You're just clearing an obstruction, so the gas pressure will drop a bit.
Basically I thought I was forestalling an objection from you, but what I really did, was confuse the issue with a level of complexity that wasn't necessary.
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A discussion of rifle ammunition bans and .223/M855 murders, by the numbers. [View all]
benEzra
Feb 2015
OP
Because M855 is lead-core *NON* AP, and if it can be designated AP under the new framework
benEzra
Mar 2015
#65
The "straw man" is pretending that M855 out of a pistol can penetrate Level III armor. It can't.
benEzra
Mar 2015
#93
It's not that pressures are different (they are the same), it's the way the leade is cut.
benEzra
Mar 2015
#119
The Straight Dope; Fighting ignorance since 1973 (It's taking longer than we thought)
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#101
"It's just they're terribly comfortable I think everyone will be wearing them in the future"
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#102
By the way, that motorcycle suit you linked to? 600D Coudra, not Kevlar. Genius move there.
AtheistCrusader
Mar 2015
#105
Hey, they admitted that AR-15 rifles are typically used by target shooters and hunters.
benEzra
Mar 2015
#31
and when some gun manufacturer comes up with a bullpup pistol version, what then?
Electric Monk
Mar 2015
#32
"its up to you to make the case why they shouldn't be, beyond 'I don't like them'."
Nuclear Unicorn
Mar 2015
#55
if you want to ban something, you go after the least effective regulations first
Taitertots
Mar 2015
#50
INTERESTING. I just learned that 55gr lead-core FMJ (but ironically not 62gr M855)
benEzra
Mar 2015
#88