Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

benEzra

(12,148 posts)
40. I equate the right to *choose* gun ownership, or not, with freedom...
Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:04 PM
Jul 2015

just as I equate choice to speak out on political issues with freedom, or choice in literature or the arts, or choice to decline entrance to my home unless the visitor has a warrant, or choice regarding the practice of religion or lack thereof. Individual choice in those domains was considered important enough post-Enlightenment for them to be listed in our Bill of Rights, as a precondition for the foundation of our current system of government.

If I as a responsible, mentally competent adult with a good record am forced to live by someone else's opinions regarding gun ownership, or religion, or literature, or reproductive choice, then my freedom is indeed diminished, and I do not see how one can logically argue otherwise. There are those who argue that all of those freedoms should be sharply abridged for various reasons (public morality, public safety, social cohesion, whatever), but one cannot pretend that such abridgements don't diminish freedom.

One is also on very firm statistical ground to say that for a responsible, mentally competent adult who is not involved or associated with criminal activity and who is not at high risk for suicide, ownership of a gun and competence with same does indeed provide a net safety benefit. That has nothing to do with the *number* of guns one owns, though, as one can only wield a single gun at a time. With a good handgun for accessibility and a good long gun for defense-in-place, it'd be hard to argue that additional guns offer much extra capability, other than specialization for certain niches.

Hunting guns tend to be more specialized, though, as are a few target disciplines (e.g., you can shoot your all-around carbine in 3-gun or USPSA and do well, but you won't win an F-class match with something not optimized to the hilt for long range work, and you won't win an Olympic free pistol match with an off-the-shelf .22).

Any thoughts on the article or do you just uncritically accept whatever any GC advocate says? Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #1
I like that dual magazine CZ75.....sign me up. ileus Jul 2015 #2
It's clearly blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #3
That gave me a WTF moment, too. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #11
It did have that beginners Photo-Shop look. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #13
It appears to be a pre-expanded expanding bullet, clearly more dangerous than petronius Jul 2015 #16
Uses a spare magazine as a foregrip, note that the magazine is upside down. n/t Shamash Jul 2015 #18
From the article Travis_0004 Jul 2015 #4
The proposals require compromise from both sides of the issue. SecularMotion Jul 2015 #5
So, where are you willing to compromise? blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #6
He can not say Duckhunter935 Jul 2015 #7
"Compromise" is a buzz word for gun grabbers and a lie DonP Jul 2015 #8
So far, the lack of response from the pro-control side blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #9
I have no qualms about the second and third proposals. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #10
That works for me. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #12
Not engaging in discussion and debate gives rise to fears of extremism... Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #14
Compromise means you get to ban some now... MicaelS Jul 2015 #23
He wants to ban 100-rounders, he says. Problem is, benEzra Jul 2015 #27
i believe this melm00se Jul 2015 #36
Yep. 20-round magazine, and power similar to a modern .45 ACP. benEzra Jul 2015 #39
What in hell is that thing in the bottom left? nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #15
Just a bit of artistic license created by... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #17
I would call that "artistic ignorance." (n/t) benEzra Jul 2015 #25
I think of in shorthand... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #26
I thought it was a meaningless grip, at first. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #37
Could be a Beretta 92 full auto with a oversized front grip? oneshooter Jul 2015 #19
I thought it was a Beretta too. What the fuck is that doohicky on the front, a can opener? AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #49
It is a fold down forward grip. oneshooter Jul 2015 #50
If you mean the bullet on the bottom right, it is this: Shamash Jul 2015 #20
Bottom Left or Bottom Right? MicaelS Jul 2015 #22
Peculiar. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #38
And uninformed Controllers are the *last* people we'll trust to decide which guns are OK. NT pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #21
I don't trust that... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #30
Those are the bullets capable of knocking airliners out of the sky, dontcha know! pablo_marmol Jul 2015 #35
And that line is drawn at .51 caliber,automatic fire, and explosives. benEzra Jul 2015 #24
What the founders envisioned HassleCat Jul 2015 #28
No. Just no. You could not be more wrong. beevul Jul 2015 #29
Yes, I understand HassleCat Jul 2015 #32
I was referring to the preamble. Do you understand what it says? beevul Jul 2015 #41
Oh, OK HassleCat Jul 2015 #42
No. The preamble to the bill of rights. beevul Jul 2015 #43
Of course. HassleCat Jul 2015 #44
More specifically... beevul Jul 2015 #46
But they stilll connected it HassleCat Jul 2015 #47
In reference only. beevul Jul 2015 #48
You make my point well. Thank you. HassleCat Jul 2015 #51
People also abuse the 1st Amendment; case in point gawker.com Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #52
Again, no. beevul Jul 2015 #53
How dare you suggest the government cannot be trusted! Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #45
"weirdo gun nuts who owned 50 weapons" oneshooter Jul 2015 #31
I'm sorry HassleCat Jul 2015 #33
Accepted, however it is that type of language that makes gun owners oneshooter Jul 2015 #34
I equate the right to *choose* gun ownership, or not, with freedom... benEzra Jul 2015 #40
indicative jimmy the one Jul 2015 #54
Which begs the question blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #55
cuts both ways jimmy the one Jul 2015 #56
It depends on who you ask. blueridge3210 Jul 2015 #57
The gun control lobby pushed the "assault weapon" issue as a way to build momentum benEzra Jul 2015 #59
Often, art imitates life, but other times... beevul Jul 2015 #60
+1 ^^^ discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #62
vintage 2ndA mythology re clinton 1994 jimmy the one Jul 2015 #61
Nope, wrong answer. In Clinton's own words: benEzra Jul 2015 #63
clinton quotes re 1994 jimmy the one Jul 2015 #64
I'm familiar with those studies, and it again goes to show how rarely benEzra Jul 2015 #58
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Americans Don't Have the ...»Reply #40