Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Gun Control & RKBA

In reply to the discussion: Gun-control mistakes [View all]

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
59. I see a .223 rifle.
Sun Sep 8, 2019, 07:31 PM
Sep 2019


The actual one Stone prototyped was presumably full-auto, which means it's legally a "machine gun" by US firearms law as applied to civilians. In military firearm terminology it's an "assault rifle", in that it is a shoulder-fired rifle capable of full-automatic fire, and fires a cartridge that is roughly between a bolt-action or semi-automatic "battle rifle" and a pistol-cartridge-firing submachine gun.

"Battle rifles" are generally in the .30 caliber/7.62mm range and fire a more powerful cartridge with one squeeze of a trigger. Examples included bolt-action military rifles like the M1903 Springfield (.30-06), the Mk III Lee-Enfield in .303 British, the K98 Mauser in 7.92x57mm, and the M1891 Mosin-Nagat in 7.62x54R. Semi-auto examples include the M-14, G-3, and FAL rifles in 7.62 NATO. The muzzle energy of these guns was very roughly in the 2,400 foot-pound region

"Submachine guns" are compact full-automatic rifles that shoot pistol ammunition. Popular 9mm examples are the Uzi, the Sten, the MP40, and the MP-5. The American Tommy gun and M-3 were in .45. The muzzle energy of these guns were roughly in the 425 foot-pound range.

In contrast, the .223 Rem (commercial version of 5.56 NATO) runs about 1,300 foot-pounds, and the Russian 7.62x39 runs about 1,500 foot-pounds.


Assuming a semi-automatic version ever went into production, what you would have is a semi-automatic .223 rifle feeding from a detachable magazine. Being a modern design made on modern machinery with modern materials, it would forgo the traditional "blued steel and polished wood" look with durable, low-glare plastics, extensive use of aluminum with a low-glare finish, and improved ergonomics by having a protruding pistol grip or grips. The use of plastic would allow the grips to be molded in an ergonomic fashion to fit the human hand better than a wooden stock, and textured to increase adhesion.

It might have a stock that is quickly adjustable without tools so it can be easily adapted to a person's size, clothing bulk, and shooting position, or one that folds for easy storage and transport. The stock may also have an adjustable cheek rest on it, so the user could line up their eye with the sights easily, quickly, and reliably.

It might be drilled and tapped for mounting a telescopic sight on it, so it could be used at longer ranges than iron sights.

It might have a device attached to the end of the barrel that helps hide the flash of the muzzle from the user during dim conditions, or a device that directs some of the propellant gasses upwards to reduce felt recoil and muzzle jump.

The barrel would probably be as close to being in-line with the shoulder as possible so that the gun would not be torqued up by recoil. The sights would have to be mounted higher above the barrel to compensate.

It might have attachment points on it for a sling, or a bipod, or both.

The magazine you reference is from 1986, so about 20 years later the design would have been updated with accessory rails so that tactical flashlights and laser sights could be attached near the muzzle, forward of the support hand. The drilled-and-tapped holes on the top for telescopic mounts would probably have been replaced with another accessory rail so that other sighting options, like red-dot sights, could be attached in lieu of iron sights or a scope.

The pistol grip would be updated with a storage compartment so that spare batteries for the flashlights, lasers, and red-dot scopes could be stored easily.

Pop quiz... which of these are "assault weapon" features?
Gun-control mistakes [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 OP
I disagree with mistake #4. Eko Aug 2019 #1
sorry you disagree discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #2
Of course a single action revolver can fire faster than a semi auto AR. Eko Aug 2019 #3
Immense apologies discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #4
If I asked you for specifics, do you think you could provide them? krispos42 Aug 2019 #5
Here are some specifics for you. Eko Aug 2019 #6
like I said before, gejohnston Aug 2019 #7
See this. Eko Aug 2019 #8
So? gejohnston Aug 2019 #9
Can you point out where it says that? Eko Aug 2019 #10
right here. gejohnston Aug 2019 #11
Still dont see "special permit" Eko Aug 2019 #12
distiction without a difference gejohnston Aug 2019 #13
No, I go by details. Eko Aug 2019 #14
There is no correlation, gejohnston Aug 2019 #15
Inequality can be a major factor without a doubt, Eko Aug 2019 #16
why? gejohnston Aug 2019 #17
Because you are making the claim. Eko Aug 2019 #18
I provided evidence for income inequality, gejohnston Aug 2019 #20
I showed evidence Eko Aug 2019 #22
Yet you ignored the highest that also have gejohnston Aug 2019 #24
So do the top 50 to disprove me. Eko Aug 2019 #26
nothing can disproven, gejohnston Aug 2019 #31
Ok then, show enough data points to make mine invalid. Eko Aug 2019 #33
you haven't shown yours to be valid. gejohnston Aug 2019 #36
Show the data. Eko Aug 2019 #27
you didn't do shit gejohnston Aug 2019 #29
It acutally took me about an hour to do this. Eko Aug 2019 #32
an hour to do a few links, gejohnston Aug 2019 #34
Actually, there are two links I used Eko Aug 2019 #35
OK, gejohnston Aug 2019 #37
So fucking do it! Eko Aug 2019 #38
I did. gejohnston Aug 2019 #41
So you admit you are just trolling. Eko Aug 2019 #39
no you are. gejohnston Aug 2019 #40
I mean I have already done 2 out of the 3 data points for you. Eko Aug 2019 #19
why should I? gejohnston Aug 2019 #23
Feel free to make your case with data points. Eko Aug 2019 #25
because you haven't provided a gejohnston Aug 2019 #28
So just make a claim without backing it up. Eko Aug 2019 #30
You can start with this. Eko Aug 2019 #21
I was referring to defining "assault weapons" krispos42 Sep 2019 #48
I think the inventor of the AR 15 knew one when he saw one. Eko Sep 2019 #50
I see a .223 rifle. krispos42 Sep 2019 #59
Any of those are assault weapon features. Eko Sep 2019 #61
Exactly my point. krispos42 Sep 2019 #63
LOL. Eko Sep 2019 #65
Well, one is an armed truck, one isn't. krispos42 Sep 2019 #67
But your paint analogy was a good one. Eko Sep 2019 #69
Depends on use, I guess. krispos42 Sep 2019 #72
So, what you are saying is Eko Sep 2019 #75
I assumed a .223 Model 700 for equivalency krispos42 Sep 2019 #79
Where did I imply this? Eko Sep 2019 #76
This is interesting also. Eko Sep 2019 #51
And we figured it out once before so we could do it again. Eko Sep 2019 #52
And it didn't do a damn thing to control either mass shootings or regular murders krispos42 Sep 2019 #53
People disagree with your opinion. Eko Sep 2019 #54
Okay, here's the promised data krispos42 Sep 2019 #57
In your second graph Eko Sep 2019 #58
And everything else as well. krispos42 Sep 2019 #60
What percentage of mass murders used handgans and non firearm weapons vs semi auto rifles? Eko Sep 2019 #62
A decent amount have krispos42 Sep 2019 #66
All definitions are arbitrary and can be changed. Eko Sep 2019 #77
And that is not true per your graphs. Eko Sep 2019 #64
You're right. I stand corrected krispos42 Sep 2019 #70
Gun sales decreased when it was a law then increased when it was ended. Eko Sep 2019 #71
That's not quite a logical conclusion, though. krispos42 Sep 2019 #73
Correlation does not mean causation. Eko Sep 2019 #74
FYI, IL does not have AWB statewide. Yet. nt yagotme Sep 2019 #55
BATFE definition: yagotme Sep 2019 #56
So what do you recommend to stop the massive killing spree? lark Aug 2019 #42
Thoughts and some logical reasoning followed with action for sure discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #43
I truly like those plans but they wouldn't stop the mass murderers. lark Aug 2019 #44
My thoughts are practical and immediate discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #45
BTW in the other countries direction discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2019 #46
for mass murders, gejohnston Aug 2019 #47
So how would that have stopper the Las Vegas shooter? Eko Sep 2019 #68
So what would have stopped Jeffrey Dahmer? discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #78
Ah there it is. Eko Sep 2019 #80
Sorry, I inferred from that you thought an AWB would have stopped the Vegas shooting discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #81
What does Jeffrey Dahmer and Josef Mengele have to do with the AWB? Eko Sep 2019 #82
BTW, I never said nor do I believe... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #83
Then why bring up Jeffrey Dahmer and Josef Mengele? Eko Sep 2019 #84
Please reread the OP discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #85
Of course laws prevent crimes. Eko Sep 2019 #86
And this goes to further prove my point... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #87
Nope, Eko Sep 2019 #88
Big fat hairy deal discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #89
LOL, way too funny buddy. Eko Sep 2019 #90
Just accept what you apparently think and own it discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #91
Just accept that you cant help but Strawman me. Eko Sep 2019 #93
Well, I don't own a gun discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #94
I fear we will not be able to. krispos42 Sep 2019 #49
Mistake #6 Alea Sep 2019 #92
I'm sure if I search... discntnt_irny_srcsm Sep 2019 #95
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Gun-control mistakes»Reply #59