About that "more guns do in fact result in more homicide."- Homicide rates have *fallen*. (Reply #36)

In the discussion thread: Seattle Officials Aim for Gun-Law Changes [View all]

Sat Jun 16, 2012, 05:40 PM

36. About that "more guns do in fact result in more homicide."- Homicide rates have fallen.

A fact you rather artfully elided:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011

Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report, January-December, 2011

Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the nation reported a decrease of 4.0 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention for 2011 when compared with figures reported for 2010. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Collectively, the number of property crimes in the United States in 2011 decreased 0.8 percent when compared with data from 2010. Property crimes include burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Arson is also a property crime, but data for arson are not included in property crime totals. Figures for 2011 indicate that arson decreased 5.0 percent when compared with 2010 figures.

The disinterested observer will note that the US violent crime and murder rates declined even as gun sales skyrocketed. So much for
the theory that it's the avaiability of guns that drives gun crime...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/preliminary-annual-ucr-jan-dec-2011/data-tables/table-3

Table 3
January to December 2011

Percent Change for Consecutive Years

Years Violent crime Murder
2008/2007 -3.5 -4.4
2009/2008 -4.4 -10.0
2010/2009 -6.0 -4.2
2011/2010 -4.0 -1.9

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92 replies	Author	Time	Post
Seattle Officials Aim for Gun-Law Changes [View all]	SecularMotion	Jun 2012	OP
I'm sure this brief moment of lucidity	pscot	Jun 2012	#1
Yes, because knee-jerk reactions by a legislature always work out so well.	krispos42	Jun 2012	#48
Do you live in Seattle?	Major Hogwash	Jun 2012	#69
Nope. And I hope you're not going to get all regional on me. n/t	krispos42	Jun 2012	#84
Empathy.	Major Hogwash	Jun 2012	#88
Because we know that police always use their powers wisely	hack89	Jun 2012	#2
You planning on using your gun to fight against police discrimination? I advise against it.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#3
Police should not have the discretion to decide what civil liberties I can exercise	hack89	Jun 2012	#5
Correct, they shouldn't.	Starboard Tack	Jun 2012	#10
So what do you suggest? Stop and frisk? Random searches?	hack89	Jun 2012	#16
No, none of that. Absolutely not.	Starboard Tack	Jun 2012	#20
So the status quo in other words? Sounds fine to me. nt	hack89	Jun 2012	#24
You left out an option.	GreenStormCloud	Jun 2012	#92
The mayor is exactly right. We need to change attitudes about guns.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#4
Yet such a tiny percentage of gun owners conceal carry	hack89	Jun 2012	#6
Plenty carry with out permits. All the SOBs I just mentioned were legally carrying right up until	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#7
So what law will prevent this?	hack89	Jun 2012	#8
Stop promoting more and more guns, particularly on the streets.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#12
How does that impact the criminal use of guns?	hack89	Jun 2012	#15
Please point out where anyone is promoting criminal use of firearms, other than criminals. n/t	PavePusher	Jun 2012	#23
When you buy a bunch of guns some of them eventually end up in criminal hands.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#60
"...some of them eventually end up in criminal hands."	PavePusher	Jun 2012	#75
So what current	Meiko	Jun 2012	#9
Ones that allow folks to strut around with guns on the street, prepare their kids to strut, etc.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#14
Doesn't seem to be working in Australia	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#18
wait?	gejohnston	Jun 2012	#29
No shit- I had to read that twice.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#37
Yep, our guns are polluting the world. Australia has smart gun laws.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#61
Well in your vast knowledge of firearms,what types and how many?	oneshooter	Jun 2012	#19
Oneshooter, I would bet 75% of your guns would fall into unacceptable to a peaceful society.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#63
Nice dodge. Why don't you answer the question instead?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#64
75% of my collection is from the 1700's and 1800's	oneshooter	Jun 2012	#66
and how do you plan on doing	Meiko	Jun 2012	#25
The millions of guns out there will double in 2 decades. Why allow that?	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#65
Then why have you called for a total ban?	oneshooter	Jun 2012	#67
Don't think I said that. I have said we'd be better off without guns, BUT	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#68
He can't advocate for a total ban...	Clames	Jun 2012	#83
If properly	Meiko	Jun 2012	#79
Good point. The gun culture always pushes the envelop without regard to society.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#80
Why allow that?	Trunk Monkey	Jun 2012	#82
In your opinion.	NewMoonTherian	Jun 2012	#78
Not the more "guns are progessive" junk again. I suppose more bombs are too?	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#81
Guns aren't progressive.	NewMoonTherian	Jun 2012	#85
Without a gun, Zimmerman would have remained in his car like the coward he is.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#86
maybe, maybe not nt	gejohnston	Jun 2012	#87
So your argument...	NewMoonTherian	Jun 2012	#89
What stats do you have to back up that claim.	Starboard Tack	Jun 2012	#11
So all those gang related shootings in DC, LA, Chicago, Detroit, etc	hack89	Jun 2012	#13
Those are inner city gangs, not your average criminal.	Starboard Tack	Jun 2012	#17
Yet by every measurable standard	hack89	Jun 2012	#22
AGAIN?????	bongbong	Jun 2012	#26
You will not win by constantly lying about my views.	hack89	Jun 2012	#31
AGAIN????? You're still insinuating people have said something they haven't?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#33
You remind me of those people who, every time there's a big snowstorm...	DanTex	Jun 2012	#30
Well, I know that increased snow would be a sign of global warming	hack89	Jun 2012	#32
Well, nice to know your denialism doesn't extend to areas other than gun violence.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#34
About that "more guns do in fact result in more homicide."- Homicide rates have fallen.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#36
Did you read either of those studies? Or are you not interested in what actual social scientists...	DanTex	Jun 2012	#39
Not if what they claim isn't bourne out by statistical trends.	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#42
Lordy. There are a lot of factors that affect crime rates!	DanTex	Jun 2012	#44
Did the places with high gun ownership not go through the same reduction in crime+murder rates?	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#62
No one denies that there are a lot of factors that affect crime rates.	Atypical Liberal	Jun 2012	#71
So if gun ownership is down drastically	hack89	Jun 2012	#38
Gun ownership is not down drastically, it is down modestly.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#40
It is the drastic and steady decline that makes it ok	hack89	Jun 2012	#41
It is still a huge number of unnecessary deaths.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#43
What is.the exact number of gun murders last year?	hack89	Jun 2012	#45
According to 2010 CDC data.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#46
Why the desire to pad your numbers?	hack89	Jun 2012	#47
What are you talking about?	DanTex	Jun 2012	#49
So you want a ban on the private ownership of hand guns?	hack89	Jun 2012	#50
Lordy! Did I say that I was?	DanTex	Jun 2012	#52
Because criminals will license and register their guns? Got it. nt	hack89	Jun 2012	#53
You seem to have trouble staying on topic.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#54
But what you want is impossible to achieve.	hack89	Jun 2012	#57
You could make the same argument about single-payer healthcare.	DanTex	Jun 2012	#59
So with all these states liberalizing their gun laws	hack89	Jun 2012	#70
The restrictionistas would rather lick a New York sidewalk than admit...	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#35
Good analogy......... had you thought it thru.......	Spoonman	Jun 2012	#91
Not a direct answer to your question, but a good info graphic	sarisataka	Jun 2012	#21
Flashy graphic!	bongbong	Jun 2012	#27
It is flashy- but I notice you didn't actually refute any of it...	friendly_iconoclast	Jun 2012	#28
Thank you, but I can't claim credit	sarisataka	Jun 2012	#56
If nothing else it is produced by a company that makes money off "tactical" gun gear.	Hoyt	Jun 2012	#72
is that you?	gejohnston	Jun 2012	#73
The truth comes out?	sarisataka	Jun 2012	#76
here all this time I thought	gejohnston	Jun 2012	#77
Start with Seattle Police shooting homeless people?	Tejas	Jun 2012	#51
Solve a dispute......SNorK!	ileus	Jun 2012	#55
When you can't take it to court, what else is a guy to do?	jeepnstein	Jun 2012	#90
LOL!	TPaine7	Jun 2012	#58
Gee, what happened to the article?	AtheistCrusader	Jun 2012	#74

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36. About that "more guns do in fact result in more homicide."- Homicide rates have *fallen*.

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36. About that "more guns do in fact result in more homicide."- Homicide rates have fallen.