Gun Control & RKBA

Loudly

(2,436 posts)

127. How can it possibly be regarded as progressive?

Sun Aug 26, 2012, 11:59 AM

Aug 2012

It empowers individuals to conveniently terminate all the genuine rights of others with extreme prejudice.

And its sole, ancient constitutional justification is to go to war with the government. An excuse which was settled by the American Civil War, and is now mooted by the covenant against armed rebellion.

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Is RKBA (Right to keep and bear arms) a Progressive value? [View all] shadowrider Aug 2012 OP

not without significant restrictions.... mike_c Aug 2012 #1

Which of the other enumerated rights do you feel the same about? pipoman Aug 2012 #5

only the ones that consistently result in mass killings of innocent people... mike_c Aug 2012 #10

Would you agree that the right to propagate the idea that blacks are not fully human and are TPaine7 Aug 2012 #29

I can't even begin to describe the redness of that herring.... mike_c Aug 2012 #70

Laugh on, since that's all you have. TPaine7 Aug 2012 #80

Wow, owned. nt rDigital Aug 2012 #94

Well I think there should be tests Missycim Aug 2012 #110

Although the text of the First Amendment clearly states that the freedom of speech is to JDPriestly Aug 2012 #20

Thank you glacierbay Aug 2012 #25

So the founders meant to protect passing secrets to the enemy and conspiracy to murder and TPaine7 Aug 2012 #27

Yep wolfman24 Aug 2012 #214

Wow - no bias in this poll. In Gungeon, in group where people post under multiple IDs, and worse. Hoyt Aug 2012 #2

If that is an accusation Hoyt, prove it or retract shadowrider Aug 2012 #3

Actually I thought Hoyt was confessing. n/t DWC Aug 2012 #118

I also took it as a confession. CokeMachine Aug 2012 #212

It is, of course, an American progressive value. In Canada where you are, things may be different. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #4

I believe he's in Georgia, surrounded by guns and conceal carry n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #6

Earlier, I thought, that he admitted being a Canadian. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #9

It is different - national health insurance, people don't need guns to venture out, etc. Hoyt Aug 2012 #13

So you now admit knowing that at least some Americans "need guns to venture out, etc." AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #19

Not at all. I'm saying Americans could learn from Canadians. Hoyt Aug 2012 #23

No. Your words from that post speak for themselves. You may not have intended the admission, but AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #44

Who would that be? pipoman Aug 2012 #7

I see what you did there n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #8

Hoyt, I find your comment offensive! Yavapai Aug 2012 #11

That comment is very typical of him. shadowrider Aug 2012 #14

Is that what you get out of posting a poll like that here is biased? Hoyt Aug 2012 #15

How can a yes or no answer be biased? explain that to me please shadowrider Aug 2012 #16

It's kind of like going to a klan meeting and asking if Obama should be re-elected. Hoyt Aug 2012 #21

Exactly glacierbay Aug 2012 #26

You didn't answer the question. How is it biased? I asked a question, yes or no answer shadowrider Aug 2012 #34

You're saying ... holdencaufield Aug 2012 #57

We put up with that crap every day n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #58

I don't mind ... holdencaufield Aug 2012 #59

95+% of DU wouldn't touch gungeon. Having lived among gun cultists, I can stomach it. Hoyt Aug 2012 #108

I notice you dodged the question n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #109

Now you're likening this forum to a klan meeting. Union Scribe Aug 2012 #89

How does this guy Missycim Aug 2012 #111

He's anti-gun, that's why. He'd be banned if he posted his insults in any other shadowrider Aug 2012 #115

I know the Missycim Aug 2012 #117

Simply pointing out that OP poll is biased. Another example, ask republicans in Tampa Hoyt Aug 2012 #121

Hoyt, you have yet to tell me how it's biased. n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #122

Go take a statistics course. Hoyt Aug 2012 #123

No. You're saying it's biased. You tell me, or else you'd say my statistics instructor shadowrider Aug 2012 #128

at the convention or the on the street? gejohnston Aug 2012 #130

Tell ya what Hoyt. Why don't YOU put up a "non-biased" poll in GD and let's see the results shadowrider Aug 2012 #132

lf you were to ask Democrats in my home state, you would have a very hard time finding any who spayneuter Aug 2012 #169

You're exactly right. Simo 1939_1940 Aug 2012 #147

Agreed. n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #151

You didn't say the same of a poll by one of your cohorts.... Clames Aug 2012 #35

Sorry missed that poll. Please enter my response as Anti-gun. Hoyt Aug 2012 #124

That would be hypocritical seeing as you still own guns. n/t Clames Aug 2012 #198

Don't carry them, don't use them, don't fondle them, they were my dad's revolvers. Hoyt Aug 2012 #204

You still own them. Clames Aug 2012 #209

Get used to it 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #138

! that happens all over DU and if you got out more often you would know it. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2012 #12

"multiple ID's"? rl6214 Aug 2012 #38

It's a very progressive value glacierbay Aug 2012 #17

The first & second amendments are the most progressive in the Constitution. rDigital Aug 2012 #18

First Amendment Yes. Second is actually regressive as you guys interpret it. Hoyt Aug 2012 #22

It's an Amendment designed to protect the good of the PEOPLE from oppression. MercutioATC Aug 2012 #71

Yea, tell that to all the people who have been oppressed and abused by gun wielders. Hoyt Aug 2012 #125

Don't forget the grocery store and WalMart n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #129

You do know Missycim Aug 2012 #112

Because it puts too much power in the hands of individuals 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #139

may be wolfman24 Aug 2012 #215

Not As Long As The Far Right Wing Owns It. (nt) Paladin Aug 2012 #24

Then let's take it away from them. NewMoonTherian Aug 2012 #95

That's why we need to take it back. rDigital Aug 2012 #96

That's like a republican lamenting that the pro-choice agenda is dominated by the left 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #140

RKBA is very important to Rush Limbaugh, Todd Akin, Glenn Beck, Joe Walsh, ... DanTex Aug 2012 #28

That 2 + 2 = 4 is believed by Rush Limbaugh, Todd Akin, Glenn Beck, Joe Walsh, Sarah Palin, TPaine7 Aug 2012 #30

Except that 2+2=4 is also believed by progressives and Democrats. The overwhelming majority of DanTex Aug 2012 #31

Even if we assume that your conclusion is correct (for the sake of conversation only) your premise TPaine7 Aug 2012 #32

My conclusion is correct, and my premise supports it. DanTex Aug 2012 #33

Your "argument is valid"? It's as valid as any ad hominem argument. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #102

Except that the only Democrats that believe in gun control are those in the big cities. rl6214 Aug 2012 #39

Is that you Sarah? DanTex Aug 2012 #40

Can you disprove it or are insults all you have? n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #42

You want me to disprove that "real people" live in rural areas and not in cities? DanTex Aug 2012 #45

Do you quote Republicans often to prove your point, or only when they agree with you? n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #48

Yeah, it's funny. The trolls that post here are so far right that even Colin Powell is... DanTex Aug 2012 #51

So, to summarize, when Republicans agree with you, they're good, right? n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #60

LOL. Actually, here's what I posted. Try and pay attention this time. DanTex Aug 2012 #61

Do you quote Republicans when they agree with you? And you pay attention shadowrider Aug 2012 #62

When arguing with teabaggers, it is often useful to present a "moderate Republican" opinion. DanTex Aug 2012 #63

Do you quote Republicans when they agree with you? You haven't answered shadowrider Aug 2012 #67

When arguing with teabaggers, it is often useful to present a "moderate Republican" opinion. DanTex Aug 2012 #69

* Yawn * I grow tired of your refusal to say yes or no, but instead shadowrider Aug 2012 #72

Yes, because some questions don't have yes or no answers. Or is that too subtle for you? DanTex Aug 2012 #74

your example is a loaded question gejohnston Aug 2012 #75

Shadow's is a dumb question, though. DanTex Aug 2012 #76

perhaps, but someone from a rural area would have been gejohnston Aug 2012 #78

Perhaps, but the point is, rl6214 is exhibiting the same ugly anti-urbanism that... DanTex Aug 2012 #81

I find it annoying and counter productive, but gejohnston Aug 2012 #86

Powell Missycim Aug 2012 #113

Fair enough. Why do you disagree with a yes or no answer? shadowrider Aug 2012 #107

Even "Colin Powell is ...more liberal" than those that you disagree with? I doubt it. None of those AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #143

not anti urbansim gejohnston Aug 2012 #47

Sorry, gej, but saying that the "real people" live in rural areas is the epitome of anti-urbanism. DanTex Aug 2012 #49

So you can't dispute that the only Democrats that believe in gun control rl6214 Aug 2012 #174

Looks like the yes' are far outnumbering the no's rl6214 Aug 2012 #36

Yup. May want to bookmark this for the next time someone brings it up n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #37

Wait, so the gungeon is infested with right-wing trolls? DanTex Aug 2012 #41

So your accusation is, everyone who voted yes is a right wing troll? shadowrider Aug 2012 #46

So you think that a gungeon poll is representative of the opinions of DUers in general? DanTex Aug 2012 #50

It's representative of those who choose to partake. shadowrider Aug 2012 #52

Exactly: the gungeon trolls! (mostly) DanTex Aug 2012 #53

It's on the main page, it's NOT a gungeon only poll shadowrider Aug 2012 #54

LOL. But the "yes" voters are by and large the usual NRA trolls. DanTex Aug 2012 #55

So anyone who supports gun rights is a troll? Nt Reasonable_Argument Aug 2012 #64

I believe that's what he's saying n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #65

Y'know Dan, I was mightily impressed a while back when you were able Simo 1939_1940 Aug 2012 #83

Hi Simo! So you just stopped in to smear me and that's it? OK, then! DanTex Aug 2012 #84

I guess that Missycim Aug 2012 #114

Yup - logic is fundamental, isn't it. Simo 1939_1940 Aug 2012 #149

Calling someone on their constant smearing represents a smear? Simo 1939_1940 Aug 2012 #146

This post was sent to jury. DURHAM D Aug 2012 #92

That's because you can say anything you want about gun owners Union Scribe Aug 2012 #93

As an exception, #77 was hidden. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #103

"NRA trolls"? Really? Reminds me of something Tom Head would come up with. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #99

Apparently ... holdencaufield Aug 2012 #116

History and elections are decided by those who show up. nt rDigital Aug 2012 #154

The results in this poll pipoman Aug 2012 #77

Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #79

How about you prove your claim.. pipoman Aug 2012 #82

Yup, the usual suspects... DanTex Aug 2012 #85

Bold.. pipoman Aug 2012 #91

So which ones are the "NRA trolls"? Put up or shut up. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #100

Aaand....nada. Typical for bullying behavior. friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #213

The truth is rrneck Aug 2012 #120

*Somebody* certainly didn't read "Obama and Orwell" (linked in post #47) friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #56

C'mon man, I had trouble with Puff n Toot n/t shadowrider Aug 2012 #66

Sorry, I wasn't talking about you... n/t friendly_iconoclast Aug 2012 #98

Wait, so your anti-gun zealotry is a losing effort? rl6214 Aug 2012 #179

Nothing could be more progressive. ileus Aug 2012 #43

Yes. And as a fellow liberal gun owner once said to me: "We can't let the republicans bluerum Aug 2012 #68

Ahem. shadowrider Aug 2012 #73

I beg to differ. geckosfeet Aug 2012 #90

This thread needs a girl from Canada... ileus Aug 2012 #87

You mean this one? gejohnston Aug 2012 #88

Would Hoyt qualify? Is Hoyt male or female? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #104

I hate that acronym. I also hate how you guys type "2A." ellisonz Aug 2012 #97

Hoplophobia is a serious medical condition, but there are modern treatements availible rDigital Aug 2012 #101

From the creator of the term "hoplophobia", for readers unfamiliar with the term: AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #105

Post removed Post removed Aug 2012 #134

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. You're among friends, it's ok. nt rDigital Aug 2012 #145

Good jury. n/t Clames Aug 2012 #197

Yep. oneshooter Aug 2012 #207

I can. Clames Aug 2012 #208

You "hate that acronym"? Hate is a strong emotion. Isn't is sufficient to simply dislike it? AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #106

Are people not allowed strong emotions? Are they never appropriate? ellisonz Aug 2012 #133

If we replied in latin rrneck Aug 2012 #119

If progressives care about maximizing the freedom of the individual 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #126

How can it possibly be regarded as progressive? Loudly Aug 2012 #127

Natural rights which exist in conflict with the restrictions that authoritarians would place upon AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #131

The proliferation of guns and ammo impairs any such right of self defense. Loudly Aug 2012 #136

Wrong. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2012 #144

Shooting first is the last thing CCW holders do. It's only a last resort shadowrider Aug 2012 #150

You're trying to describe a world of CCW holders. Loudly Aug 2012 #155

Just a few points discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #135

Surrender by Lee to Grant at Appomattox. Loudly Aug 2012 #137

Never again discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #148

If you're rich 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #142

So why are all these poor people in Chicago getting shot? Loudly Aug 2012 #153

since when were gejohnston Aug 2012 #156

Of course they're the public. As long as they're living and not incarcerated. Loudly Aug 2012 #157

since many if not most of them are felons gejohnston Aug 2012 #160

They all come from the same place. Loudly Aug 2012 #161

different factories gejohnston Aug 2012 #166

The workshop of elves. Loudly Aug 2012 #171

Right, that is how UK lowered their murder rate. gejohnston Aug 2012 #177

You can't own a handgun in Chicago legally. rDigital Aug 2012 #158

I believe the McDonald decision changed that. Loudly Aug 2012 #159

no they can't gejohnston Aug 2012 #162

Did you just say that statutory gun control is effective? Loudly Aug 2012 #164

You're saying the answer to people breaking laws is rDigital Aug 2012 #167

No, the answer is scarcity. Loudly Aug 2012 #172

There is no correlation between crime and firearms ownership rDigital Aug 2012 #173

What would they be dying from? Loudly Aug 2012 #180

Human violence rDigital Aug 2012 #181

No way. Guns are for lazy people. Loudly Aug 2012 #184

Quite the contrary, Gun control is the preferred choice of the lazy authoritarian. rDigital Aug 2012 #187

Drive by stabbings? No, I think means speaks for itself. Loudly Aug 2012 #192

So convenient to cite a conterfactual universe where your point can never be proven. :) theinquisitivechad Aug 2012 #182

Most gunshot victims survive. Guns aren't magical death tubes. rDigital Aug 2012 #185

Bystanders, whether intended targets or not, are the victims of the product. Loudly Aug 2012 #186

neutrally funded peer reviewed gejohnston Aug 2012 #188

Hmmm. . . theinquisitivechad Aug 2012 #199

a respected award winning criminologist vs a blog? gejohnston Aug 2012 #200

I fear we're going to go around and around on this one. theinquisitivechad Aug 2012 #201

Hemenway's work is faulty gejohnston Aug 2012 #205

Great. theinquisitivechad Aug 2012 #206

Something to agree on. Guns ARE more efficient. More convenient too. Loudly Aug 2012 #190

are our drug laws effective? gejohnston Aug 2012 #168

Drugs are voluntarily consumed. Loudly Aug 2012 #170

Guns are about a million times easier to smuggle than drugs. rDigital Aug 2012 #176

that is relevant how? gejohnston Aug 2012 #178

That a contraband value system which promotes guns and persecutes drugs is clearly misallocated. Loudly Aug 2012 #183

owning a gun for legitimate reasons is victim-less gejohnston Aug 2012 #189

Hardly victimless. Access is floodwater. It goes *everywhere.* Loudly Aug 2012 #191

I have never harmed anything with my guns gejohnston Aug 2012 #194

The mere fact that you can get your hands on a gun and ammo makes it a threat to society. Loudly Aug 2012 #195

In reality.... discntnt_irny_srcsm Aug 2012 #202

Danger then. Hazard. High likelihood of death or injury from the indulgence. Loudly Aug 2012 #210

After the McDonald decision rDigital Aug 2012 #163

Yes they are. And giving them access is a national tragedy. Loudly Aug 2012 #165

Yet you have never been safer as gun violence continues to decline to historic lows. hack89 Aug 2012 #196

The drug war pushed by some. 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #175

Actually, adherence to it is the Progressive Value! Absolutely! n/t spayneuter Aug 2012 #141

Note to all: Jury Duty rDigital Aug 2012 #152

Since Progressive values are strictly imaginary, they differ from region to region, ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #193

A pipeline of arms to drug rackets is not...eom Kolesar Aug 2012 #203

I love this poll, I might just bump it everyday to remind everyone that there are rDigital Aug 2012 #211

The most progressive value. rDigital Aug 2012 #216