IMO the problem is "self-defense" and "group-defense" and a solution must satisfy both.

[rrneck]

8. An interesting idea.

What if, instead of thinking in terms of "self defense" and "group defense", we thought in terms of "defense of the group by the individual" and "defense of the individual by the group"?

That way "defense of the individual by the group" embraces the best of liberal ideology. Individuals would get the support they need in terms of education, health care and a functional social safety net. And "defense of the group by the individual" can work the same way. Defending the group is one's civic duty. If we use legislation to foster civic duty we can, for instance, allow people to have guns and wotnot because along with gun ownership, the will have inculcated in them their responsibilities in terms of responsible gun ownership and the rules of engagement.