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MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 10:25 AM Aug 2017

Apologetics are supposed to be "reasoned arguments to support scripture." [View all]

Last edited Thu Aug 31, 2017, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

Reasoned. Logical. The problem with all of that lies in the underlying premise that a supernatural deity which is all-powerful, all-knowing and infallible actually exists and affirms what is in the scriptures being discussed. Unless you accept that premise, all apologetics fail the basic tests of logic.

Most apologetics are circular in nature, at best, and can be argued back to that underlying premise, which can only be true based on faith that it is true, rather than on any evidence of truth.

Once the underlying premise is exposed, apologetics fall apart as tautologies. Now, the argument against apologetics is futile, because the believer will simply cite faith in the premise, but there is no actual logic or reason involved. Unless you accept the premise, the logic is false. If you accept the premise, it can be argued as truth, but there is no evidence for the premise.

All religious arguments have that premise as their foundation. It is impossible to succeed in such an argument, since the person you are arguing with accepts the premise on "faith."

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1

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You hit upon a problem exboyfil Aug 2017 #1
History of Ideas zipplewrath Aug 2017 #7
Let me tell you something I picked up from Scorcese's movie "Silence." yallerdawg Aug 2017 #2
So "no proof" is proof? longship Aug 2017 #3
Faith, my friend, faith. It doesn't actually have to be true if you MineralMan Aug 2017 #5
If you saw Jesus, and saw what he did... yallerdawg Aug 2017 #6
Who has actually done that? longship Aug 2017 #9
When we SEE unshakable faith and a willingness to die in the name of that faith... yallerdawg Aug 2017 #12
Oh, for pete's sake! People died for Hitler's principles, too. MineralMan Aug 2017 #13
I'm not looking for internal validation of MY faith. yallerdawg Aug 2017 #18
"...an unshakeable proof of faith." Mariana Aug 2017 #25
Like when people fly airliners into buildings? longship Aug 2017 #14
No one denies the existence of faith. No one. Mariana Aug 2017 #15
all that proves is faith Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #46
I said in another thread Mariana Aug 2017 #26
I'm sorry, but that's pretty much nonsense. MineralMan Aug 2017 #4
There's a big difference between "I don't know" and "Damn certain." yallerdawg Aug 2017 #8
And people crash airplanes into buildings for their faith, too. longship Aug 2017 #10
What is the fastest growing religion on earth now? yallerdawg Aug 2017 #16
I find that an odious argument. longship Aug 2017 #17
Probably the fastest growing is non-belief. MineralMan Aug 2017 #19
You would be wrong. Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #41
Facts are facts. They have evidence of being facts. MineralMan Aug 2017 #11
Then, there's this story. yallerdawg Aug 2017 #20
Written by someone who was not there. MineralMan Aug 2017 #21
This is from the historical Apostle/Disciple John - who is giving a firsthand account. yallerdawg Aug 2017 #22
No, actually, it is not a firsthand account. MineralMan Aug 2017 #23
You don't BELIEVE it is a firsthand account... yallerdawg Aug 2017 #29
You're right. I don't. MineralMan Aug 2017 #34
You can't compare the record of any ancient figure with any modern figure marylandblue Aug 2017 #39
2000 years from now... yallerdawg Sep 2017 #43
You are making ridiculous comparisons marylandblue Sep 2017 #44
So much misinformation in one post. Sigh. trotsky Sep 2017 #45
So it has a compelling logic that can be doubted? marylandblue Aug 2017 #27
The whole basis of free will... yallerdawg Aug 2017 #28
Yes, because our feeling that we want to continue to live marylandblue Aug 2017 #30
Since I started my observations with the movie "Silence"... yallerdawg Aug 2017 #31
I don't see an actual paradox here marylandblue Aug 2017 #32
Choosing to require definitive proof is a choice. yallerdawg Aug 2017 #33
still don't see the paradox marylandblue Aug 2017 #37
Then you are assigning no value to the choice, as if it's neutral. yallerdawg Aug 2017 #38
No, because marylandblue Aug 2017 #40
actually not believing in gods is the default state for humans Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #42
That's funny Cartoonist Aug 2017 #35
"Story of Your Life." yallerdawg Aug 2017 #36
What was their motive? Cartoonist Sep 2017 #52
why does god need man?? Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #47
To worship and obey the deity, apparently. MineralMan Sep 2017 #48
not one I would want to worship Angry Dragon Sep 2017 #49
One modelled after ancient middle eastern absolute monarchs marylandblue Sep 2017 #50
Recommended. guillaumeb Aug 2017 #24
Ever see this movie? Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #51
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