Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

15. It is an unprovable belief.

Fri Nov 10, 2017, 07:22 PM

Nov 2017

We can speculate, but we cannot know.

We can make certain statements about what we believe to be true, but again, faith is needed because it is unknowable.

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Let's talk about free will. [View all] Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 OP

I think that there can be an omnimax creator and free will. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #1

But can it fill that need without contradicting its own nature: power, knowledge, etc.? (nt) Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #3

Yes of course, an all powerful God gives us the gift of free will. So that souls may evolve, learn. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #10

Can God do evil? Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #11

No of course not. But S/He will let others do evil as part of their soul journey. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #21

But what of the people who suffer evil. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #53

This is a difficult topic. Eastern religions suggest karma, and pre-birth agreements. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #55

How did you come to your knowledge Lordquinton Nov 2017 #65

Extensive reading and studying. And some of it I don't know where it comes from. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #68

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." yallerdawg Nov 2017 #16

God makes choices, allows us to make choices. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #24

First I think you have to prove god............... Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #2

I do, personally? Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #4

Someone has to prove god to have an arguement Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #6

One thing I have never understood, why is there a need to prove God exists? Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #26

thanks for clearly expressing the standard abrahamic god concept. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #5

Maybe the nature of "God" PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 2017 #7

We need Him to come off the beach and save our bacon on this planet. :) Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #25

According to the Bible, God does not always allow Mariana Nov 2017 #8

You have essentially defined, or created if you will, a deity for yourself. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #9

If we cannot reason about the creator, Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #12

Humans can freely speculate, but I feel that we can never "know". guillaumeb Nov 2017 #13

But isn't the inference that the existence of the universe Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #14

It is an unprovable belief. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #15

What is the value of that belief? Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #17

I believe that there is a Creator. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #18

Can we speculate, though? Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #19

I do not think either approach is wrong. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #23

We can speculate, but we are limited by our human consciousness. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #31

I think the limits of human consciousness and knowledge do prevent us from understanding Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #34

Nice points, and we agree that our limitations prevent us from guillaumeb Nov 2017 #41

Yes I agree. We are not able to grasp the whole picture. Just bits and pieces. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #45

Science and rationality go hand in hand with a belief is a supreme being. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #22

Have any other faiths/paths/perspectives done a better job Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #27

Yes indeed. The eastern religious do a much better job of explaining Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #28

That's where I thought you might be going with this. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #29

Not just Hinduism, but Buddhism, Shinto, Confucianism. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #30

I've been very focused on Catholicism. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #32

Yes I can see why. Aquinas wrote about reason and theology. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #33

I think God has chosen to be enigmatic for a reason. We will never prove God's existence. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #35

The line of thought we are discussing leads to Geneva Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #37

Can you say more about this? nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #38

In general, I've been thinking a lot about Calvinism this morning. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #39

Several thoughts. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #40

So bottom line, there is some power that God does not have. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #54

No, if I said that I didn't mean to. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #56

All powerful. All the power. For God. None for us. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #57

God is all powerful. We are not. But we do have power. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #58

When you say "all powerful" Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #59

I agree, we need to operationalize the term. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #60

I mean it in this discussion in an existential sense. Htom Sirveaux Nov 2017 #61

You are correct in that I believe that God is all powerful but does not exercise his potential Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #62

Htom, I think there is a scenario that fits your view. One that makes sense to me. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #69

To elaborate further and to borrow from guilaumeb. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #49

Perhaps the Creator, for whatever purpose having created, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #42

Yes I think this is true to some extent. But a bit more.... Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #44

As do all people who believe in such entities. MineralMan Nov 2017 #20

It is the standard all powerful abrahamic god. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #36

Recommended for the very interesting dialogue that has occured thus far. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #43

God promised me a nice big piece of cake if I wrote good things about Him. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #46

My feeling is that all aspects of tribalism are necessary to survival. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #47

Humans hard wired for religion for survival purposes. Does this connect to free will then? Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #48

What would "total free will" encompass? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #50

I would agree "total" free will does not exist. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #51

I recommed reading or... Snackshack Nov 2017 #52

What about Acts of God? MarvinGardens Nov 2017 #63

Or as I call them, Things That Happen. Iggo Nov 2017 #64

All the modern descriptions also describe nogod existing Lordquinton Nov 2017 #66

"If God knows which decision I will make before I exist ..." Jim__ Nov 2017 #67

There is no 'free will'... If you believe in an all-powerful God, there is only'allowed will'. keithbvadu2 Nov 2017 #70