Religion

Voltaire2

(13,042 posts)

40. oh bullshit. Your op here is yet another case of you running away from the hole you dug yourself

Thu Nov 16, 2017, 07:24 PM

Nov 2017

into in a different thread by starting up a new thread. You are attempting to re-frame your argument, but you are still dismissing as "intolerant" Cartoonist's short essay on his experience of life as a non-believer.

Yes you are just a saint, being so kind to all your fellow christians wishing you merry fucking christmas. It must be such a struggle to refrain from replying "merry christmas" to "happy HOLY DAYS". Bless you.

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Real respect for others beliefs [View all] guillaumeb Nov 2017 OP

THIS is what I would expect to see... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #1

My feeling as well. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #51

Coming to my private home to sell me their religious belierfs is not respect Merlot Nov 2017 #86

The amazing thing is their faith... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #91

You're shitting me, right? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #93

If you don't think that people of faith... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #94

Don't forget, they're absolutely not trying to recruit you. Mariana Nov 2017 #108

I don't know why you think it's an "amazing thing" Mariana Nov 2017 #99

I know many good Christians who do good things for people... yallerdawg Nov 2017 #101

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations Mariana Nov 2017 #102

You're conflating doing good with some notion of "recruitment." yallerdawg Nov 2017 #103

Preaching the gospel, making people into disciples, Mariana Nov 2017 #104

It's as if I didn't post a comment directly refuting your claim. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #106

A true religion comes from within, anything else is a myth Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #140

Haven't you said Lordquinton Nov 2017 #116

Non sequitur. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #121

How ironic Lordquinton Nov 2017 #122

Not at all the same thing! yallerdawg Nov 2017 #123

Explain how it's not the same thing Lordquinton Nov 2017 #124

How do you confuse "sin" and "respect?" yallerdawg Nov 2017 #126

You seem really confused on the issue Lordquinton Nov 2017 #127

I'm not at all confused, and declaring I am doesn't make it so. yallerdawg Nov 2017 #129

wat Lordquinton Nov 2017 #132

It's 'wott'. Heheh. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #136

I totally agree with you, guillaumeb. Honestly, when I say "Merry Christmas," I'm thinking more Glorfindel Nov 2017 #2

Thank you. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #23

TIL "real respect" means preserving religious privilege. trotsky Nov 2017 #3

How is it *you* didn't get some snide comment about sarcasm? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #10

Thank you for your contribution. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #24

Thank you for your acknowledgment! n/t trotsky Nov 2017 #61

I don't think "respect" is the correct word here. ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #4

It is both in my view. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #31

So we are talking about respecting people, not necessarily respecting the beliefs themselves? nt ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #57

Of course. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #95

Ok, so maybe we shouldn't title our post "Real respect for others beliefs" then eom ExciteBike66 Nov 2017 #110

You don't get upset when people like you say things you might say? Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #5

Sarcasm. The weapon of the weak. Nitram Nov 2017 #7

"Quotes. The weapon of the pretentious, the unoriginal, and vapid." Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #9

If you consider John Knowles pretentious, unoriginal and vapid, the you are right. Nitram Nov 2017 #15

The thing is that it isn't the person being quoted who is pretentious, unoriginal and vapid. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #39

Then you completely failed to get the point. Nitram Nov 2017 #50

It was obvious. nt. Mariana Nov 2017 #52

Thank you for your insight. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #25

Personally, I always reply in the way as the speaker. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #32

"I see" Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #42

And not having lived my life, you have no idea of my experiences either. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #45

Oh, for fuck's sake. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #58

Oh, reparation, you sound so very angry, unhappy, and persecuted. Nitram Nov 2017 #60

30+ Examples of Christian Privilege trotsky Nov 2017 #65

I'm sorry, just because we're in a minority doesn't mean we're being persecuted. Nitram Nov 2017 #71

Fallacy of relative privation again, along with a straw man. trotsky Nov 2017 #73

So much anger. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #96

Nope. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #153

We all cherish our illusions, do we not? eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #167

Not as much as some cherish their privilege. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2017 #179

You did? You were? You are? end of message sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #137

A nice one. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #166

A of R sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #173

We are supposed to have religious tolerance written into our Constitution. Nitram Nov 2017 #6

Are we? trotsky Nov 2017 #11

Does tolerance imply respect? Nitram Nov 2017 #16

Then do we respect the beliefs of those who are anti-choice? trotsky Nov 2017 #20

One can respect their right to those beliefs, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #33

Exactly! Nitram Nov 2017 #36

Then you're telling those people their beliefs are wrong. trotsky Nov 2017 #64

You misunderstood again. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #97

Yes, my mistake. trotsky Nov 2017 #182

Yes, it was, but you compounded by more misframing. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #190

But yet you won't explain how I misframed. trotsky Nov 2017 #194

Not ar all. Referring to intelligence. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #199

My tactic of asking you to explain yourself? trotsky Nov 2017 #200

Keep illustrating my point. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #201

Yes, we've established this. My pattern of asking you to explain your "point." trotsky Nov 2017 #202

We respect their right to hold that opinion and we work to get enough votes to prevent their Nitram Nov 2017 #34

"We respect their right to hold that opinion" trotsky Nov 2017 #62

Either you haven't been listening, or I haven't explained myself clearly. Nitram Nov 2017 #66

Then you are arguing against guillaumeb's strawman. trotsky Nov 2017 #67

Madison--you know, one of the main writers of the Constitution--didn't want ministers Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2017 #13

Cuthbert, are you saying that the Constitution allows you to go out and kill or imprison Nitram Nov 2017 #17

What the actual fuck is with your immediate turn to violence? trotsky Nov 2017 #22

I'm being entirely honest. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Nitram Nov 2017 #35

It really is odd that you say that, Nitram. Mariana Nov 2017 #38

Grow up and stop whining. You are not being burned at the stake or lynched, or being denied the vote Nitram Nov 2017 #49

First world problems indeed, starting with the OP. Mariana Nov 2017 #54

I am very interested in discussing tolerance and respect because it appears to me some people Nitram Nov 2017 #59

Ah, there it is. trotsky Nov 2017 #69

How very clever. Is that a quote or an original idea of yours? Nitram Nov 2017 #72

I'm simply pointing out you are employing that fallacy. trotsky Nov 2017 #74

Trotsky, that icepick must still be firmly lodged in your forebrain. Nitram Nov 2017 #77

I'm glad you can see that the fallacy of relative privation is wrong to use. trotsky Nov 2017 #79

You can dish it out but you just can't take it. Nitram Nov 2017 #83

Just FYI. trotsky Nov 2017 #84

Let's see. You compared me to a right winger in post #69. Nitram Nov 2017 #87

I am content to let my words stand for themselves and let readers judge from the context. trotsky Nov 2017 #88

I was entirely aware of the context. I took issue with the ideas some were expressing in the thread. Nitram Nov 2017 #89

"jumping all over someone who suggests tolerance rather than outrage" trotsky Nov 2017 #90

Not to bring up something you got ruffled about before when Trotsky said Lordquinton Nov 2017 #184

OK, so you equate me with right wingers who always excuse their insults with jokes? Nitram Nov 2017 #207

Congrats, I think you're getting the point. trotsky Nov 2017 #63

I don't agree that it is religious intolerance. We have a right to choose what to read. Nitram Nov 2017 #68

Great! trotsky Nov 2017 #70

Trotsky, get a grip. Nitram Nov 2017 #75

"it is better to just ignore shit we don't like if it doesn't actually harm us" trotsky Nov 2017 #76

I'm sorry you feel embarrassed about your inability to understand the difference between Nitram Nov 2017 #78

Fallacy of relative privation. n/t trotsky Nov 2017 #80

Trosky, old chum, I don't believe you really understand the fallacy of relative privation. Nitram Nov 2017 #82

What's with this sudden rash Lordquinton Nov 2017 #185

By the way, Trotsky, I have not been expressing guillaumeb point of view, I have been Nitram Nov 2017 #81

As well as separation of Church and State. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #26

Are any here actors of the state? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #186

I have no idea. I am a retired Federal worker. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #191

So you know that the first amendment doesn't apply here Lordquinton Nov 2017 #204

The First Amendment protects individual speakers from governmental interference. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #209

I do the things you have listed, but for a different reason. I don't have much respect Nay Nov 2017 #8

Thank you for the excellent response. Tolerance in action.. eom guillaumeb Nov 2017 #27

This is exactly what was described in the post you took such great exception to Lordquinton Nov 2017 #187

I took exception to the assumption of motivation. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #192

And yet you still can't even provide one example of a different motivation. trotsky Nov 2017 #198

What's an alternative? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #205

Stiil pushing your totally unsupportable meme I see. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #210

He is not denying her intention was to spread the word marylandblue Nov 2017 #213

Any dialogue could unintentionally cause insult. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #214

Well it appears you are the one asking us to sit quietly on our rooms marylandblue Nov 2017 #216

Perhaps Cartoonist, and a few others, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #218

Perhaps you should recognize the role of assuming motives in social contexts marylandblue Nov 2017 #219

But assuming motives and then condemning based on those imagined assumptions guillaumeb Nov 2017 #220

No it's actually quite normal marylandblue Nov 2017 #222

And the woman of course had no idea that Cartoonist viewed guillaumeb Nov 2017 #224

If he gave no indication of it, then probably not marylandblue Nov 2017 #225

Some people are easy to read. Cartoonist Nov 2017 #221

True, some people are easy to read. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #223

You seem to me to have trouble understanding motivations of people on DU nt marylandblue Nov 2017 #226

That's what everyone has been saying her motives are Lordquinton Nov 2017 #215

Your first sentence sums up the issue nicely. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #217

Most of you sisters and brothers in humanity who affirm sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #150

Religious harassment Cartoonist Nov 2017 #12

Cartoonist, you sound very aggrieved. Care to share some of your more traumatic experiences? Nitram Nov 2017 #18

Your anger is evident. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #28

That is because you are blind to your privileged status. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #14

You are making a lot of assumptions there, Voltaire. Nitram Nov 2017 #19

Yeah well I guess weve had different experiences. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #37

No, I started as a semi-believer in spite of attending church for only one year of my life (at the Nitram Nov 2017 #48

I dismissed nothing. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #29

oh bullshit. Your op here is yet another case of you running away from the hole you dug yourself Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #40

Well done. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #43

Respect is earned. EvilAL Nov 2017 #21

Assuming facts and motivation not in evidence. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #30

JCOAPS this is not a law court. Voltaire2 Nov 2017 #41

So any claims of motivation are accepted as fact? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #44

You seem not to understand the role of motive attribution in social communication marylandblue Nov 2017 #55

I understand framing, guillaumeb Nov 2017 #98

Framing is a completely different thing, so no marylandblue Nov 2017 #105

What is with your hang-up on motivation? Cartoonist Nov 2017 #85

The woman said she was a missionary. Mariana Nov 2017 #46

Words do have meaning M. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #47

That's pretty funny. EvilAL Nov 2017 #56

Your premise is faulty marylandblue Nov 2017 #53

And when I see such respectful discussion, I notice it and thank the responder. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author marylandblue Nov 2017 #107

My point is that, contrary to your OP, respect is not at all about attributing motives marylandblue Nov 2017 #109

So the facade of respect is your concern? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #111

No, my concern is the priority of action over feelings marylandblue Nov 2017 #112

So is the action of offering a pamphlet in itself disrespectful? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #113

yes and no Cartoonist Nov 2017 #114

So it was the venue, being in a place of business? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #117

definitely not Cartoonist Nov 2017 #118

I understand. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #120

Yes, the action is disrespectful marylandblue Nov 2017 #115

My primary issue was the expression by the poster that the lady intended to insult him. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #119

He did not say she had bad intent marylandblue Nov 2017 #144

He used the term "insult" when describing her actions. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #164

He said "felt insulted" marylandblue Nov 2017 #177

Cartoonist actually said: guillaumeb Nov 2017 #189

Still does not imply intent marylandblue Nov 2017 #193

Then feel free to explain exactly what you feel Cartoonist meant. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #197

I think it is pretty clear marylandblue Nov 2017 #206

Well explained. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #211

Doesn't have to be an actual work problem marylandblue Nov 2017 #212

HAPPY BIRTHDAY Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #92

Happy Days of Holly and Brandy Soaked Eggnoggins! sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #133

I am always willing to talk to them Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #134

You do know what 'sect' (I am being kind) I related this incident about. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #138

I am afraid I do not............... Angry Dragon Nov 2017 #139

They travel in pairs, males. With their white shirts, black slacks and black brief bags. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #149

I'm sure they understand you Mariana Nov 2017 #154

I'm insulted, I haven't seen one in years marylandblue Nov 2017 #160

We eventually put up 'no soliciting' signs adjacent to our sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #161

So are you defining this for everyone? Lordquinton Nov 2017 #125

If you read the post, you will see that there is no link to an article. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #128

That was a really complex way to say Lordquinton Nov 2017 #131

Exactly. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #165

Ok, it was an opinion piece Lordquinton Nov 2017 #183

If you can't assume motivation from action marylandblue Nov 2017 #146

I trynot to assume ill intent where none was intended..... you have to go with the flow sometimes. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #130

That's a charitable position to take. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #135

I aree, most people sharing a religious belief are well intended, such as in "God Bless You and Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #141

Interesting observation that being Catholic scares them off. I'll use that next time. Nitram Nov 2017 #142

I know it is weird. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #143

Some evangelicals do believe the Roman Catholic Church Mariana Nov 2017 #145

If that's how they react to catholics marylandblue Nov 2017 #147

I should try this the next time and see what reaction I get. nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #156

Wow, I never knew. Gives me a certain power with this group. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #155

I wrote a post somewhere here why 'some' sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #152

A friend of mine is Greek Orthodox and gets the same reaction. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #157

We don't do 'till death do us part' and 'o, promise me.' sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #162

In this Greek Orthodox wedding it was the same kind of thing. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #170

Thank you for the appreciation. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #174

Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #148

These are the best parts of Catholicism in my book. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #158

I attended a Catholic highschool several years altho' I'm not RC. sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #168

Yes I am not religious but I still pray to the various saints. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #171

I enjoy our exchange! 🎁 sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #175

Yes, I do too. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #181

A God Bless You or a Merry Christmas could be understandably sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #151

I have no idea what "being saved" really means. Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #159

He took on the human nature/experience. Becoming like us, He sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #169

This makes sense, first time I heard a good explanation! Thanks! nt Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #172

I still receive revelation even after decades. There's much more sprinkleeninow Nov 2017 #176

Same to you sprinkle Irish_Dem Nov 2017 #180

An excellent practice for us all. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #163

You're wise beyond your years rock Nov 2017 #178

Well I am definitely in the old category. guillaumeb Nov 2017 #195

I must remember this thread Lordquinton Nov 2017 #188

Can you cite examples of this defcom 5? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #196

It is one sided Lordquinton Nov 2017 #203

Like this? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #208