Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

213. Of course.

Tue Sep 25, 2018, 06:24 PM

Sep 2018

And that difference in agency illustrates the essential difference between the free will of a human actor and planetary weather events.

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Why Does Allah Allow Human Suffering? For What Purpose? [View all] guillaumeb Sep 2018 OP

Have you ever found a good answer? Cartoonist Sep 2018 #1

2 things: guillaumeb Sep 2018 #2

I guess god forgot Cartoonist Sep 2018 #3

I fail to see the logic behind your response. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #4

If not omnipresent then not God. A Demi-God for Earth? Fred Sanders Sep 2018 #6

Please prove #2. trotsky Sep 2018 #8

If you look at replies 1 and 2, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #9

A terrible answer Loki Liesmith Sep 2018 #126

No, it is my answer. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #149

My answer is simple. Igel Sep 2018 #96

But you didn't create the universe or the human condition marylandblue Sep 2018 #97

It seems that Allah grants free will to hurricanes as well. Towlie Sep 2018 #5

A natural weather occurence. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #15

Straw man plus begging the question. trotsky Sep 2018 #7

I am certain that the author would be devastated by your response. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #10

Ah yes, everyone is just too stupid to understand the brilliant logic. trotsky Sep 2018 #11

I did not say that you were/are stupid. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #13

Then explain it. trotsky Sep 2018 #16

What the author said: guillaumeb Sep 2018 #17

No we don't Cartoonist Sep 2018 #18

And do you agree that you and I do not know the whoe of reality? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #24

I agree Cartoonist Sep 2018 #48

Speaking of making a fool of oneself, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #55

Who is they? Cartoonist Sep 2018 #62

Again, so insightful. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #64

"What you see as reality is limited." trotsky Sep 2018 #21

Ah yes, the old, tired and worn out, "god works in mysterious ways" excuse Major Nikon Sep 2018 #142

He is correct about the author's presumption marylandblue Sep 2018 #58

The author has faith. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #60

I consider lack of evidence to be "evidence" but perhaps not absolute proof marylandblue Sep 2018 #65

Or, it shows that the search started from false premises. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #69

What would be the correct premise to begin the search for God? marylandblue Sep 2018 #73

Faith. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #76

Sounds like a good starting point for comfirmation bias marylandblue Sep 2018 #85

Agreed. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #86

If there is no evidence for God, then the most likely conclusion marylandblue Sep 2018 #87

So you just have to decide that there is a god? Lordquinton Sep 2018 #108

In each case, for each position, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #112

What else do you accept without evidence? marylandblue Sep 2018 #117

There is no evidence phlogiston exists marylandblue Sep 2018 #121

The Phlogiston Theory is a wonderful example of science working MineralMan Sep 2018 #122

Speaking of framing Lordquinton Sep 2018 #107

I have previously given my position on faith, and that no evidence is needed. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #111

Using Lordquinton's translation stated elsewhere marylandblue Sep 2018 #119

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence Major Nikon Sep 2018 #143

Hitchens made many good points when he confined himself to politics. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #150

Meanwhile you are making many poor fallacies Major Nikon Sep 2018 #152

If you could qazplm135 Sep 2018 #37

Nope. trotsky Sep 2018 #41

Lol qazplm135 Sep 2018 #66

And yet the clear and wholly unoriginal thesis Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #74

and what was my response qazplm135 Sep 2018 #89

This. Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #92

What's the all caps word there qazplm135 Sep 2018 #93

Perhaps you forgot that the op was referring Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #94

ffs qazplm135 Sep 2018 #123

Converting, are you, guillaumeb? MineralMan Sep 2018 #12

You believe that Epicurus was correct. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #14

You cannot say what I believe, guillaumeb, nor when MineralMan Sep 2018 #20

Speaking of blind arrogance..... guillaumeb Sep 2018 #23

When you presume to tell others what they think or believe, MineralMan Sep 2018 #25

And my point was on confirmation bias. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #26

I realize that you have convinced yourself of that. MineralMan Sep 2018 #27

"Allah" doesn't allow anything... NeoGreen Sep 2018 #19

The Creator understands. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #22

And the understanding is all still of no greater effect in reality than... NeoGreen Sep 2018 #28

Do you understand all of reality? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #29

(nt) NeoGreen Sep 2018 #30

your limitations make it impossible qazplm135 Sep 2018 #39

The Creator cannot exist outside of the reality that is a creation of the Creator. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #40

Flimflam. MineralMan Sep 2018 #43

Your new favorite term? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #49

Actually, a Creator cannot exist within the reality that is its creation. MineralMan Sep 2018 #45

Follow your own advice. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #50

Nonsensical qazplm135 Sep 2018 #68

Your determination of the limits of the Creator. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #71

No the basic definition of what a god is supposed to be qazplm135 Sep 2018 #72

Since when? Lordquinton Sep 2018 #110

2 different concepts. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #114

This sounds very traditionally Christian in a way. marylandblue Sep 2018 #118

The Word becomes flesh every time someone accepts the Word. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #148

So your answer is that you get to have it both ways? Lordquinton Sep 2018 #125

Do you understand any of reality. MineralMan Sep 2018 #44

2 wholly unsupported claims. n/t trotsky Sep 2018 #31

Excellent counting skills. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #32

Offsets your pitiful argumentation skills, I guess. n/t trotsky Sep 2018 #33

Notice that I made no comment on your argumentation ability. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #34

Yes, I realize that, because you acknowledge its superiority by being unable to respond. trotsky Sep 2018 #35

I understand. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #36

Thanks for agreeing with me! n/t trotsky Sep 2018 #38

Clearly, you do not. nt MineralMan Sep 2018 #46

So you disagree with trotsky? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #51

My reply was to you, not anyone else. MineralMan Sep 2018 #95

Haven't you claimed Mariana Sep 2018 #81

Many here understand that this is my opinion. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #82

How can you even have an opinion Mariana Sep 2018 #83

How can some have an opinion that the Creator does not exist? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #84

Gil, you don't just posit some creator might exist. Mariana Sep 2018 #88

I assumed that you recognized that my opinion posts are just my personal view. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #98

Did you just make up your personal views Mariana Sep 2018 #103

We all approach faith as individuals. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #106

Allah, Yahweh, Zeus allow nothing. MineralMan Sep 2018 #42

Thus it is definitively decided. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #53

.. MineralMan Sep 2018 #56

Always your best response. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #57

Often, it's all I need. MineralMan Sep 2018 #63

This theodicy rests on a logic error marylandblue Sep 2018 #47

Your error is presuming that you understand the reason for the Creator's actions. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #52

I don't assume anything other than the usual definition of God marylandblue Sep 2018 #54

If a human being cannot make an informed judgement of reality, then why are we supposed to trust it? DetlefK Sep 2018 #59

Any human believes in a god because of faith. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #61

Is human faith fallible or infallible? DetlefK Sep 2018 #67

Nothing human can be infallible. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #70

Then faith is irrelevant for the question whether God exists. DetlefK Sep 2018 #75

No, faith is the belief in the Creator. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #77

But you just said that it's fallible. That means, it's unreliable. DetlefK Sep 2018 #91

Faith requires belief. Any statement of faith represents a statement of belief. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #99

What are your definitions of "faith" and "belief"? DetlefK Sep 2018 #100

My faith in this area refers to my belief that the Creator created what we guillaumeb Sep 2018 #104

I don't ask what your faith and your belief are. What are your definitions of "faith" and "belief"? DetlefK Sep 2018 #116

Faith has been defined as the willing suspension of disbelief. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #147

Willing? Little children are indoctrinated to have faith Mariana Sep 2018 #159

Are little children indoctrinated into believing in patriotism? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #178

Yes, and that isn't voluntary either. It is forced upon them. nt. Mariana Sep 2018 #181

This is also the definition of enjoying science fiction marylandblue Sep 2018 #162

Now we're getting somewhere. DetlefK Sep 2018 #170

Faith is the foundation for religion. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #179

So what? It's not my fault that religion is full of philosophical errors! DetlefK Sep 2018 #182

Religion takes many forms. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #183

This is not about people. This is about faith. DetlefK Sep 2018 #185

He won't answer, because faith isn't an argument marylandblue Sep 2018 #186

Faith and belief are dependent on each other. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #189

Stop digging. You are only making it worse. DetlefK Sep 2018 #195

Do you only have provable beliefs? eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #202

The point is, how willing are we to defend that which cannot be defended? DetlefK Sep 2018 #203

Allah is the same Abrahamic god worshipped by Christians. If you believe the OT, he actively ... malchickiwick Sep 2018 #78

Some Christians deny that Allah is the same as the god of the Bible. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #79

*Historically illiterate Christians deny that Allah is the same as the god of the Bible. eom malchickiwick Sep 2018 #80

Agreed. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #175

Some Christians also deny that Jesus is the same as the god of the bible Major Nikon Sep 2018 #153

Drivel. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #90

Free will. underpants Sep 2018 #101

Free Willy! True Dough Sep 2018 #102

Yes. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #105

Is human suffering always contingent upon the free action of other humans? Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #134

How insightful of you. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #177

Not really. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #180

It is entirely likely then that you don't know any humans. Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #164

You ask an interesting question. TomSlick Sep 2018 #109

Agreed. An excellent repsonse. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #113

I regret there is no place to discuss religion on DU. TomSlick Sep 2018 #115

Here is the Statement of Purpose for the Religion Group: MineralMan Sep 2018 #120

Correct. TomSlick Sep 2018 #128

I do not recall anyone saying anything like that to you. MineralMan Sep 2018 #130

We agree. TomSlick Sep 2018 #131

Religion is a topic that is open for debate. MineralMan Sep 2018 #132

Wow. Fascinating. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #145

Illustrating one of the poster's points. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #146

Uh-huh. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #154

His point was that cluelessness gets mocked? Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #155

This is you illustrating my observation of the 11th Commandment. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #176

You really should back up your statement. Mariana Sep 2018 #160

You'll never get one. trotsky Sep 2018 #200

Well, it isn't working, apparently. MineralMan Sep 2018 #201

Yes, there is some harsh rhetoric and ridicule in that regard marylandblue Sep 2018 #124

People break the rules here and they get dealt with Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #156

I think criticism on this site goes beyond "outspoken" marylandblue Sep 2018 #157

Do you think that there have been any attemps Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #158

Yes there is that one poster, but I've seen harsh rhetoric directed at others marylandblue Sep 2018 #161

Like this current subthread where a religionist Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #163

I didn't see any harshness and I didn't see him say we were wrecking DU marylandblue Sep 2018 #166

He's said several demonstrably false things in this thread. Mariana Sep 2018 #167

I got the sense he was offering an impressionistic viewpoint rather than any direct quote marylandblue Sep 2018 #168

That is not what he was squawking about. Mariana Sep 2018 #174

People don't distinguish between attacking their cherished ideas and attacking people marylandblue Sep 2018 #184

He wants what most people lurking the internet want. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #187

I hate people marylandblue Sep 2018 #188

Tom said: Mariana Sep 2018 #190

Ok I concede that point. marylandblue Sep 2018 #191

That is false. There is such a place. Mariana Sep 2018 #133

Of course, nobody has posted there since April. MineralMan Sep 2018 #135

I was just correcting TomSlick's false statement Mariana Sep 2018 #137

Some people like a fight, I guess. MineralMan Sep 2018 #140

Same reason humans don't save every bug, or animal from pain and suffering. We are just so Pisces Sep 2018 #127

Some do have that as a goal. MineralMan Sep 2018 #129

This is true, but a very small percentage of religions or mankind as a whole. It is the arrogance of Pisces Sep 2018 #136

I call foul... NeoGreen Sep 2018 #138

Thanks for supplying the numbers. MineralMan Sep 2018 #141

I would, humbly, suggest that the author of post #136... NeoGreen Sep 2018 #151

Very few actively practice harm avoidance. Voltaire2 Sep 2018 #165

That is true, but the principle still exists. MineralMan Sep 2018 #173

Reading stuff like this... Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #144

Why? marylandblue Sep 2018 #169

You don't find anything disquieting... Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #171

No, I find it metaphorical for the physical universe marylandblue Sep 2018 #172

Why do some people have to experience so much more pain than others? trotsky Sep 2018 #139

Why are some people taller than others? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #193

Random variation and natural selection marylandblue Sep 2018 #194

Genetics. trotsky Sep 2018 #196

We both know he won't. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #197

It's his standard propaganda technique - whataboutism. trotsky Sep 2018 #198

Performance art. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2018 #199

An interesting response. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #192

I don't know why but the effects of suffering are like a gamble. gtar100 Sep 2018 #204

My interpretation of the phrase "allow human suffering" is that guillaumeb Sep 2018 #205

What free will human decision causes earthquakes? marylandblue Sep 2018 #206

Is that the best response you could think of? eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #207

That was a question, not a response. Do you have an answer? marylandblue Sep 2018 #208

I was serious. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #209

That was my question to you. marylandblue Sep 2018 #210

The commonality is suffering. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #211

The causal mechanisms are different marylandblue Sep 2018 #212

Of course. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #213

Human actors have free will to cause pain to otherhuman actors marylandblue Sep 2018 #214

Human actors have the ability, and the will. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #216

The Creator doesn't have free will? marylandblue Sep 2018 #218

The Creator created, and free will exists in sentient beings. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #219

That doesn't answer the question marylandblue Sep 2018 #220

Now your questions seem designed to avoid dialogue. eom guillaumeb Sep 2018 #221

Not at all. I asked if the Creator has free will. marylandblue Sep 2018 #222

The Creator created. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #223

Sure. marylandblue Sep 2018 #224

Prove that you have free will. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #225

Definition: Free will is the ability to make a choice with no external forces controlling you marylandblue Sep 2018 #226

And does your entire life experience influence your decisions? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #230

Free will isn't 100%, it can be influenced modified etc. marylandblue Sep 2018 #231

No, there is no issue. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #233

The issue is that the Creator created a world with suffering and death marylandblue Sep 2018 #234

Overcrowding? guillaumeb Sep 2018 #235

Omnipotent, remember? marylandblue Sep 2018 #236

No death, no illness, guillaumeb Sep 2018 #237

Not no physical laws. Different laws. marylandblue Sep 2018 #238

Prove ANY ONE of the many statements you have made about your creator. trotsky Sep 2018 #228

Exactly. And that implies (to me) conditions in which we can grow in knowledge through experiences. gtar100 Sep 2018 #215

A very nice reply. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #217

Why do you post these questions and then get dismissive and irritated with the responses? tymorial Sep 2018 #227

I am not looking for conversion. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #229

Who knows why Gil does what he does? Mariana Sep 2018 #232