2016 Postmortem

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)

43. If you "don't have the votes"

Tue Jan 19, 2016, 12:20 PM

Jan 2016

The answer is not to shrug and crawl away. You get the votes by pushing the issue and never giving up.

Presidential candidates are in the business of talking about what we NEED, not just what they think they can get without sticking their necks out and fighting.

Obama talked endlessly about what we needed -- including a public option -- and then didn't get all of it. Some thought he fought hard enough; others thought he gave up quicker than he should have.

No one thought he was a fool, or somehow dangerously misguided, to talk about our goals and priorities first and deal with how far we could get toward them second.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

61 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

"It won't pass" is the absolute weakest argument against Sanders's health care plan. [View all] Recursion Jan 2016 OP

"No we can't" jfern Jan 2016 #1

Correct: right now, we can't Recursion Jan 2016 #2

Gerrymandering can be argued in the third branch. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #12

The last thing we want is a gerrmandering case to come to the current SCOTUS Recursion Jan 2016 #13

It wouldn't BE the Supreme Court.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #18

The next census is 2020, and equal protection claims are open to Federal appeal (nt) Recursion Jan 2016 #19

Okay, I saw 2016 but it's for the test in Texas only.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #21

It helped that FDR had veto proof Senate and house to work with yeoman6987 Jan 2016 #3

And If Democrats Began Representing People Not Corporations scottie55 Jan 2016 #4

FDR had a lot of opposition from his own party Art_from_Ark Jan 2016 #6

And Pete Seeger wrote a song calling FDR a JP Morgan loving fascist Recursion Jan 2016 #8

When FDR ran for President in 1932, the Republicans controlled the Senate jfern Jan 2016 #7

He ran in 1932 on cutting taxes and reducing government regulations Recursion Jan 2016 #9

No, he ran in the wake of the crash of 29 and Hoover cracking down on the Bonus Army.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #16

No, he actually campaigned on lowering taxes and removing "burdensome regulations" Recursion Jan 2016 #17

Wrong. He ran on NOTHING SPECIFIC. It was all "Happy Days Are Here Again".... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #20

No We Can't John Poet Jan 2016 #14

No, no podemos. GoneFishin Jan 2016 #29

Nazi Germany? Cali_Democrat Jan 2016 #40

It's not even an argument Kalidurga Jan 2016 #5

Heres how I predict it will go down. Promethean Jan 2016 #10

Why didn't Sanders use the bully pulpit to support the tax to fund Vermont single payer? SunSeeker Jan 2016 #15

He knew it was going to be costly and people wouldn't understand taxes would replace premiums. Hoyt Jan 2016 #24

sounds suspiciously like a political calculation nt firebrand80 Jan 2016 #33

Because cowardice is a common trait among third-way-style Democrats jeff47 Jan 2016 #38

Vermont is the most liberal state in the union. Sanders didn't even try to defend the tax. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #42

Yet neither of those statements changed what I said. jeff47 Jan 2016 #44

Those "centrist Democrats" are the ones who passed Vermont single payer in the first place. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #45

Again, still doesn't change that the VT Democrats value fear over hope. jeff47 Jan 2016 #46

What "hope" did they have if Sanders didn't support the tax? SunSeeker Jan 2016 #47

Keep on trucking. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2016 #50

Bernie's plan is to make healthcare a RIGHT.... Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #11

I don't think it is the weakest argument. It is one of the things that he says distinguishes Squinch Jan 2016 #22

When all else fails, insist your opponents are morons. jeff47 Jan 2016 #39

"Can't get anywhere if you don't try" -- Sanders introduced a single payer bill in 2009, it died. Hoyt Jan 2016 #23

If at first you don't succeed, give the fuck up. Amirite? Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #25

That's what Sanders did in Vermont. nt SunSeeker Jan 2016 #48

When he was governor? Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #51

Awww, poor powerless Bernie "Not My Job" Sanders. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #54

Perhaps you ought to review how state governments work. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #55

Perhaps you ought to review how microphones work. nt SunSeeker Jan 2016 #56

Bernie has no say in state issues pinebox Jan 2016 #60

Naw, one can act like the GOPers and keep debating the same old dead legislation rather than Hoyt Jan 2016 #57

So your initial complain was "tried and failed" and your new complaint is "keeps trying". Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #58

Nope, you are the one who wants to keep trying the same old thing that can't pass when Hoyt Jan 2016 #61

That "plan" is DOA leftofcool Jan 2016 #26

Any Argument Will Do With The Coronation In Jeopardy cantbeserious Jan 2016 #27

Good post, but I respectfully disagree with certain parts of it. Vattel Jan 2016 #28

"Of course it won't pass." NCTraveler Jan 2016 #30

Reality sometimes changes when determined people demand that it changes dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #31

And that is the conversation currently taking place. NCTraveler Jan 2016 #32

They aren't even trying to get there dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #34

I disagree. NCTraveler Jan 2016 #35

No, you aren't even out there making the case for it dreamnightwind Jan 2016 #36

"too contentious" is also absurd, hello? tk2kewl Jan 2016 #37

You don't understand! We have to let the Republicans set what we are allowed to do! jeff47 Jan 2016 #41

If you "don't have the votes" DirkGently Jan 2016 #43

It kind of is KingFlorez Jan 2016 #49

It is far worse than that... Thenewire Jan 2016 #52

I keep reminding people that we could have had single payer, or at least a public option Zen Democrat Jan 2016 #53

Reality is the weakest argument? LOL! KittyWampus Jan 2016 #59