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Gothmog

(147,373 posts)
92. Here’s One Big Problem With The Bernie Sanders Plan For Health Care Utopia
Thu Jan 21, 2016, 03:36 PM
Jan 2016

This plan will not be adopted nationally http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-health-plan_us_569ff110e4b076aadcc50807

The Bernie Sanders health care plan, which the Vermont senator released this week, sounds pretty spectacular at first blush. It’s a proposal to create a single-payer system, which means that Sanders would wipe away existing insurance arrangements and replace them with a single government program. Everybody would get insurance, free of co-pays or deductibles.

That’d be an upgrade in benefits, even for seniors on Medicare. And while people would have to pay higher taxes, Sanders claims most people would come out ahead financially because they wouldn’t be paying private insurance premiums anymore. A typical middle-class family would save about $5,000 a year, according to a rough analysis commissioned by Sanders' presidential campaign, while society as a whole would end up saving something like $6 trillion over the next decade.

To help pay for his plan’s unprecedented benefits, Sanders proposes to extract unprecedented savings from the health care system. Here is where the details get fuzzy and hard to accept at face value, even beyond the usual optimistic assumptions that figure into campaign proposals. Sanders expects a large portion of the savings to come from reductions in administrative waste, because insurance billing would basically end. Another big chunk would come from squeezing the industries that produce health care services and supplies -- and squeezing those industries hard.

That last part should set off alarm bells for anybody who remembers the fight to pass the Affordable Care Act. Two particular episodes from 2009 -- one widely publicized, one barely noticed -- are a reminder of how much power those groups wield in Washington. For Sanders to realize his vision for single-payer health care, he’d have to overcome even greater resistance than Obamacare’s architects faced. And Sanders has offered no reason to think he could do that, which is something Democratic voters might want to keep in mind.

Two lessons from Obamacare

The first and better-known episode from 2009 was the battle over the “public option” -- a proposal, crafted by Yale political scientist Jacob Hacker, to create a government-run insurance plan that would compete with private insurers for customers. Hacker and others figured the public option could dictate lower payment rates to suppliers and providers of medical care, just like Medicare does, thereby keeping premiums low and forcing private insurers to match them.

Voters liked the idea, according to polls, and experts had certified that it would save the government money. But it ran into huge opposition -- not just from insurers, who didn’t want the competition, but from doctors, makers of drugs and medical devices, and hospitals, all of whom understood the proposal would cut into their revenues....

Bernie's vision vs. Hillary's

No, this grim political reality doesn’t mean Sanders or anybody else should stop advocating for single-payer. Progressive achievements like the minimum wage and civil rights began as ideas that the political establishment once dismissed as loopy. And the kind of reform that Sanders envisions would have a lot going for it. Single-payer works quite well abroad and a version of it could work here too -- even if, as Harold Pollack and Matthew Yglesias noted recently at Vox, it would ultimately require compromises and trade-offs that supporters rarely acknowledge.

But voters comparing Sanders and Hillary Clinton, who has proposed bolstering the Affordable Care Act rather than replacing it, should be clear about the choice they face. This isn’t a contest between a candidate who can deliver health care nirvana and one who is willing to settle for less. It’s a contest between a candidate imagining a world without political or policy constraints, and one grappling with them; between a candidate talking about what he hopes the health care system will look like someday, and one focused on what she can actually achieve now.
Pragmatic means submit to republicans during every negotiation. JRLeft Jan 2016 #1
Yes it does. It admits defeat right out of the gate. Punkingal Jan 2016 #3
"Pragmatic" is dog-whistle code for "Status Quo" Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #52
it's another dog-whistle for "making tough choices' Karma13612 Jan 2016 #81
So Obama was Pragmatic when he put Social Secutiry on teh chopping block? Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #82
yes. and he compromises instead of fighting from a much higher starting point. Karma13612 Jan 2016 #85
We were talking about Pragmatism. HIllary will be a continuation of Obama's Pragmatism. Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #88
Yes. We must not fight a Republican House Deny and Shred Jan 2016 #79
And how will you get the gop to go along with this vision? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #2
Do they fucking own us? Punkingal Jan 2016 #6
To fight them the party needs money and Sanders refused to raise a dime for the party. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #9
Screw that stupid argument. He fights with the truth and people want to hear it. Punkingal Jan 2016 #11
Your debating skills leave me in utter awe! hrmjustin Jan 2016 #15
Your parroting the same old lines is awe-inspiring by contrast. Punkingal Jan 2016 #17
No my point is Sanders has shown no desire for party building. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #19
Long since been proven false sonofspy777 Jan 2016 #38
Yes - this was proven false a couple of weeks back. yet some here keep repeating it over and over kath Jan 2016 #75
Then WE need to raise it...the rank and file progressives... JimDandy Jan 2016 #57
Thank you! Punkingal Jan 2016 #58
If you have weak ideas, you need a lot of money to convince people their great ideas. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #37
The Party that fights him at every step? tazkcmo Jan 2016 #102
That is a nice excuse you are making but it is just an excuse. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #104
Your opnion. tazkcmo Jan 2016 #105
What poll shows me wrong? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #106
You don't START with a compromise, you start with the ideal situation, jkbRN Jan 2016 #10
Ok but if they control the house they won't vote for Sanders bill. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #12
Work on a primary challenger for all of them, get the house back, jkbRN Jan 2016 #16
Then why did Sanders fail to raise money for the party? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #18
Sanders, as the only career politician running on our side, NCTraveler Jan 2016 #70
Ummmnnnhhhhh.,.,Can't do anythiong,. No how no way. We're all Doomed! Armstead Jan 2016 #78
The thing is gollygee Jan 2016 #98
If pragmatism is starting off with a compromise jkbRN Jan 2016 #4
It's not a compromise Cassiopeia Jan 2016 #8
Its just a huge compromise (I agree with you) jkbRN Jan 2016 #13
No, it's capitulation. nt haikugal Jan 2016 #29
+1 Punkingal Jan 2016 #34
If pragmatic means letting Repugs pull us further and further right TDale313 Jan 2016 #5
The people using that word Cassiopeia Jan 2016 #7
Oldie but goodie whatchamacallit Jan 2016 #14
I suppose I should laugh, but it's not funny, it's tragic. Punkingal Jan 2016 #20
Ideologues always do hate pragmatism. So much easier to fantasize and throw stones. KittyWampus Jan 2016 #21
Fantasize and throw stones? What exactly do you mean? Punkingal Jan 2016 #22
I think you're confusing with "idealist" with "ideologue." Either way, it's inaccurate. senz Jan 2016 #24
Mo Dowd refers to Hillary as "expedient." senz Jan 2016 #23
That bitter woman can go and rot. Beacool Jan 2016 #39
Is that the bus you're throwing her under? Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #77
I've always found pragmatic to be code for selling out. Skwmom Jan 2016 #25
Bingo! Punkingal Jan 2016 #26
+1000 GoneFishin Jan 2016 #30
Pragmatiic is the word you hear Kelvin Mace Jan 2016 #27
We have to have a candidate who is viable Gothmog Jan 2016 #28
Exactly, that's why I'm so happy to have a real liberal to vote for. He works for us not against us. haikugal Jan 2016 #32
Good answer! Punkingal Jan 2016 #40
How is Sanders going to win? Gothmog Jan 2016 #45
Voters who believe...in their power, and that they deserve something better. Punkingal Jan 2016 #47
Deserving something better is not the same as winning an election Gothmog Jan 2016 #49
We can disagree...I don't think Hillary is viable. Punkingal Jan 2016 #51
Only if you believe that the Kochs will not run $300 million of negative ads against Sanders Gothmog Jan 2016 #53
buy into the $15 trillion lie if you want. Punkingal Jan 2016 #55
That number is a good number Gothmog Jan 2016 #63
I wouldn't need to if people would look at things instead of accepting whatever they are told. Sad. Punkingal Jan 2016 #64
add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt antigop Jan 2016 #46
How high is this counter now? Gothmog Jan 2016 #48
just keep repeating the "Bernie is unelectable" meme. nt antigop Jan 2016 #65
I keeping asking a question that is not being answered Gothmog Jan 2016 #68
Why don't you check out the national head to head match-ups with Bernie and the Republicans? Punkingal Jan 2016 #69
Because according to Nate Silver these numbers are worthless Gothmog Jan 2016 #71
Matchups have no predictive power on who will win the general election, but they may JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #76
Read the original Eaton article that Nate cites Gothmog Jan 2016 #84
I don't believe Enten makes a single comment about comparative analysis, only about predictions JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #86
Feel free to ignore the polls and the facts Gothmog Jan 2016 #90
Your post is excessively rude. I wasn't advocating ignoring polls or facts. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #91
add +1 to the "Bernie is unelectable" meme counter. nt antigop Jan 2016 #73
Talk to DWS. Say "hi" and tell her "thanks" for her moment of candor re: Bernie. nt antigop Jan 2016 #74
and, gee, if there were only a way to find out. Hehehe. nt antigop Jan 2016 #66
How is Hillary viable? Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #56
Do you have any doubt that she can raise sufficient funds to compete? Gothmog Jan 2016 #62
Funds are necessary for competing but not necessarily sufficient for victory Fumesucker Jan 2016 #87
Third Wayers have been using the word for years as a way to describe their Zorra Jan 2016 #31
Yep... haikugal Jan 2016 #33
Pragmatism boils down to doing what works HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #35
+100000000 CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #43
Straight up useless! Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #80
These days, "pragmatic" is most often used as a euphemism for "disappointing" demwing Jan 2016 #36
Pragmatic Democrats = Surrender Monkeys 99Forever Jan 2016 #41
beginning? PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #42
"Pragmatic" is just another way of saying "sell out." CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #44
Yup. The rightward drift continues farleftlib Jan 2016 #50
Name me one major election a Democrat has won by moving to the right... Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #54
I'm fine with pragmatic LWolf Jan 2016 #59
Your definition is fine...I'm afraid the Clinton people don't define it that way. Punkingal Jan 2016 #60
It's one of the many terms LWolf Jan 2016 #72
It's defeatism. earthside Jan 2016 #61
How fitting with Hillary invoking the name of Truman and tying it to the ACA. Something about Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #83
There's a superiority with pragmatism, which says I'm the grown up, the realist. EndElectoral Jan 2016 #67
The way HRC is using the term, "pragmatic" means "Settling for less than nothing". Ken Burch Jan 2016 #89
Here’s One Big Problem With The Bernie Sanders Plan For Health Care Utopia Gothmog Jan 2016 #92
Hillary has no vision. Punkingal Jan 2016 #93
Vision is nothing without being pragmatic KingFlorez Jan 2016 #94
And being pragmatic is nothing without vision. Now, with the bromides dispensed with... Romulox Jan 2016 #95
Bernie Sanders's fiction-filled campaign Gothmog Jan 2016 #96
This is an opinion piece. Punkingal Jan 2016 #97
Where are the supposed cost savings? Gothmog Jan 2016 #99
Well I don't believe that. Punkingal Jan 2016 #100
pragmatic = cowardly. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2016 #101
Bingo...they are cowards, all of them, including Pelosi. Punkingal Jan 2016 #107
Why some Dems think people prefer ""Pragmatism"... when is not done Honestly? Yupy Jan 2016 #103
How do you feel about "sensible woodchuck?" merrily Jan 2016 #108
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