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2016 Postmortem

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kennetha

(3,666 posts)
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 11:37 AM Feb 2016

Sanders: A Man with A Hammer, Who Sees Nails Everywhere [View all]

On another thread, someone wondered if Sanders is "tone-deaf" on matters of race. I think he's not exactly tone-deaf. He's just a man with a hammer who sees nails everywhere.

In particular, he's an economic determinist, who thinks in quasi-marxist fashion, that class antagonism is more fundamental than any other form of antagonism, more fundamental than racial antagonism in particular. That doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks racism isn't real, but he thinks that if you bring about true economic justice, racial justice will somehow follow in its wake -- but probably not the other way around. Indeed, he probably thinks that it would be impossible to achieve racial justice without first achieving economic justice.

I mean that's why he rails and rails against the Billionaire class. He thinks they and their greed are the source of almost all social/political/economic ills. So I wouldn't say he's "tone" death, as much as he is monomaniacal in his singular focus on the billionaire class as public enemy number one.


It's worth thinking how plausible it is that the billionaire class really deserves to be labelled public enemy number one. Personally, I've got no brief for the billionaire class. I do have to admit that I wouldn't complain if somebody dropped a few billions on me and made me one of them. But I'm just not sure that they are the only villains worth fighting or how many of our many woes they are directly to blame for.

First off, if we going to talk the billionaire class, we gotta realize that we're not just talking an American class, but a sort of global international cooperative. Rein in just the American segment of the class and you still got global international capital to contend with. And it's not at all clear how many problems you can really solve just by addressing the American segment of the global class. (That's why some Marxists -- like Trotsky -- thought that the revolution of the proletariat had to be a world wide revolution.)

So here's a question for Bernie, can you really de-rig the American economy, without de-rigging the Global economy?

Now I wouldn't want to deny that there surely some truth to the idea that the billionaire class would very much like to make the US government into its wholly owned subsidiary. But I don't think they've quite succeeded entirely. Miscreants of many types have a piece of the thing -- evangelicals, nativists, racists, old people, the rural folk -- Certainly not all of them are card carrying members of the billionaire class. One of the reasons politics is such a mess in this country is that it's a big complicated sprawling thing with many centers of power, many veto points, with a constitution that is designed to prioritize stasis and conflict over change. Makes it damned hard to get anything done.

That's why it's sort of silly to think that it's the billionaire class that is wholly responsible for the fact that we don't have single payer health insurance. I grant that a lot of resistance comes form the drug companies and the insurance companies. And these folks are charter members of the billionaire class. But I think you can go a lot further down the economic ladder than the billionaire rung and find a lot of people who are resistant. Most doctors aren't card carrying members of the class. But a lot of them -- especially the specialists -- are highly opposed to "socialized medicine." People who work for big companies with generous benefits always fear they are going to be net losers in any new scheme that at all lifts those below. That's a pretty American thing. And you don't have to be a billionaire to be subject to that particular affliction -- call it "I got mine-ism." American as apple pie.

And, by the way, it was president Jimmy Carter -- no servant of the billionaire class, who actually torpedoed Kennedy's national healthcare bill back in the late 70's, prompting Kennedy to challenge him for the Democratic nomination.

It's less clear to me whether it's the evil billionaire class that is supposed to be responsible for mass incarceration in Bernie's mind. Personally, I tend to blame white people at large and their fear of the black other for that one. I don't think it was the billionaires who insisted for decade after decade that politicians be "tough on crime." It wasn't the billionaire class that got that insane and costly three strikes and your out law passed in California. It was a lot of angry and afraid white people -- a lot of them working and middle class.

Now as a quasi-Maxist economic determinist, comrade Bernie probably thinks their racism is due to "false consciousness." What angry white racists need is a little class consciousness to make them immune from being played against their black brethren in chains by the billionaire class.

Same thing with illegal immigration, I guess. Have to find a way to lay xenophobia at the feet of the billionaire class. That's a little tricky, since you might naively think that the billionaires would be for open borders -- cause, you know, more cheap exploitable labor, and all.

Obviously some of the desolation of America -- the desolation of its heavy industries, the emptying out of rural American -- is due to the GLOBAL billionaire class, at least in part -- cause you know global capitalism, agribusiness, and all that capital moving around the globe at the speed of light. That kind of stuff takes livelihoods with it in the blink of an eye, enriching those over here, while impoverishing those over there, with a brutal and indifferent efficiency.

Dealing with that is tough stuff. One of the biggest challenges of the 21st Century. Not sure how to stop it. Way more difficult than saying "Main street bailed out wall street, time for wall street to bail out main street." a la Sanders. Way more difficult even than "breaking down all the barriers" al la Clinton too. But at least she recognizes that there are many distinct and interacting barriers and soaking the billionaires while necessary isn't sufficient to break all the barriers down.

Bottom line, even given the partly destructive force of global international capitalism, and the havoc it has wreaked on the American landscape -- I doubt it's just the billionaire class that's responsible for all of our decay. I mean just think about it, even billionaires have to live and work and do business somewhere. They have to draw workers from somewhere. They have to ship resources here and there. So you would think they would want a highly efficient infrastructure, a highly educated workers and all that jazz. That argues for a lot of public investment in things that we haven't been investing much in for a very long time. Who exactly is to blame for that lack of investment? If it's really and truly the billionaire class that is blocking that investment, then, well they are just stupid and working contrary to their enlightened self-interest, aren't they?

Long winded way of saying that comrade Sanders isn't tone deaf -- not exactly -- it's more like he's got tunnel vision. He's a man with a hammer, who sees nails everywhere.

155 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If you want to be taken serious try ending the red baiting. libtodeath Feb 2016 #1
There was no red baiting at all cosmicone Feb 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Xipe Totec Feb 2016 #10
Reading comprehension (heck, reading *period*) is your friend. kath Feb 2016 #28
comrade Bernie ? pangaia Feb 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #103
Quasi-Marxist isn't red-baiting? cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #104
I literally got to that comment and stopped reading the rest. RichVRichV Feb 2016 #127
You're loss - good points made CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #137
Even then...The "Bernie is a one track candidate" is such a false non-starter from the campaign. merrily Feb 2016 #152
I got as far as "comrade Bernie" n/t TubbersUK Feb 2016 #2
wow Merryland Feb 2016 #3
DU REC! bravenak Feb 2016 #4
Of course, that is what the Rev. King believed also. kristopher Feb 2016 #117
Now you're for redbaiting ?! Arazi Feb 2016 #133
Yeah yeah yeah bravenak Feb 2016 #134
This message was self-deleted by its author cosmicone Feb 2016 #5
Kicked and highly recommended n/t cosmicone Feb 2016 #7
Carefully considered post...a heart K & R Sheepshank Feb 2016 #97
thanks for the heart and the K&R kennetha Feb 2016 #107
Blah.Blah. Bernie bad. Hilly good. Blah blah blah cali Feb 2016 #8
+1. nt nc4bo Feb 2016 #9
Yep, My parents knew a lot of filthy-rich people (Father was a surgeon) BlueJazz Feb 2016 #22
I guess that balances out your Blah.Blah. Hilly bad. Bernie good. Blah blah blah. JTFrog Feb 2016 #39
Super intellegent comment CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #138
Some music for a thread about hammers Fumesucker Feb 2016 #11
Always liked Seeger. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #79
Sanders makes it seem like DURHAM D Feb 2016 #12
Very astute observation ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #147
So what you're saying is you like Ronald Reagan? Gregorian Feb 2016 #13
Wow kennetha Feb 2016 #14
Sorry, I garnered that by reading between the incomplete sentences.. Gregorian Feb 2016 #15
What do you mean wow. Your OP sounds like it was written by a conservative republican. nt m-lekktor Feb 2016 #18
I don't think you can read kennetha Feb 2016 #20
IMO 99Forever Feb 2016 #100
So how do you account for Rev.King believing the same thing as Sanders? kristopher Feb 2016 #119
I got from this that its better to keep minorities poor than to give them jobs or pay them more. RiverLover Feb 2016 #17
Glaring non-sequitur of kennetha Feb 2016 #21
You have now used 'non-sequitor' twice, at least. pangaia Feb 2016 #42
Reagan started this, more or less Recursion Feb 2016 #19
And in the Twitter Era that's sadly what it takes to win Recursion Feb 2016 #16
And another similarity - Assurances that they will fix everything CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #139
Wrong, Bernie Sanders continues to remind us Karma13612 Feb 2016 #145
I feel so sorry for the poor, downtrodden, billionaires being attacked by "comrade" Bernie. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #23
Who said billionaires are downtrodden? kennetha Feb 2016 #25
Wouild "Picked on"? Balamed? Scorned? Attacked? Defamed? be more apt. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #32
the question is whether billionaires are responsible for kennetha Feb 2016 #38
Which is like asking if the Mafia is responsible for all our ills. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #47
Hillary supporters. Nails that see hammers everywhere raised against them. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #24
you seem incapable kennetha Feb 2016 #26
Have you looked in the mirror. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #29
Try responding to something I actually said with a thought of substance kennetha Feb 2016 #31
What substance have you actually provided? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #33
you can't read obviously. kennetha Feb 2016 #35
And you won't. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #41
And, sicles. Don't forget the sickles, comrade. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #36
Comrade? let me put forth my biggest randys1 Feb 2016 #27
The billionaire class is absolutely responsible for the decay, My Good Babushka Feb 2016 #30
What about racism and xenophobia kennetha Feb 2016 #34
Maybe this attitude had something to do with it hobbit709 Feb 2016 #40
Right that's the marxist and quasi-marxist line that I was talking about. kennetha Feb 2016 #44
Jay Gould spouting Marxist lines-that IS the funniest thing I've come to in your posts yet. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #46
All Marxists are economic determinists kennetha Feb 2016 #49
Do you even know who Jay Gould was? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #51
yeah. kennetha Feb 2016 #54
So your argument is what? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #57
Jeepers. kennetha Feb 2016 #61
Actually I don't. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #62
Unfortunately, not many historical examples. Chile might have been floppyboo Feb 2016 #70
What do you believe then? kristopher Feb 2016 #122
Actually keeping the masses from uniting together keeps the elitists in power OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #53
the question is does it go the other way round. kennetha Feb 2016 #55
Who do you think promoted that? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #58
They sure think they do. kennetha Feb 2016 #66
Wrong, wrong, wrong. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #68
They immigrant or the black guy kennetha Feb 2016 #71
Um, yes, they are working, for less. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #76
yes I know all that kennetha Feb 2016 #80
Again, willful blindness. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #85
Ad hominem insults kennetha Feb 2016 #86
Do you even know what ad hominem is? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #87
willful blindness kennetha Feb 2016 #90
Uh, no. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #91
You are condescending to ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #101
I very much appreciate the fact that you find other posters OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #114
This sounds like stubborn ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #115
WTF are you talking about? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #116
Did you really read and savor every ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #121
It's not that I didn't read it. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #128
None so blind ... ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #131
Look in the mirror. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #135
Follow your own advice ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #142
You too. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #146
You don't think slave-owning was all about money? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #84
Final Exam Question kennetha Feb 2016 #88
For many reasons. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #92
I think that's partially right. kennetha Feb 2016 #94
Is Nestle working little white children to death in the cocoa fields? My Good Babushka Feb 2016 #110
Are they responsible for racism or xenophobia? PatrickforO Feb 2016 #154
Are you REALLY this naive? pangaia Feb 2016 #43
naive? kennetha Feb 2016 #45
NOPE, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #50
Sanders is right to see class warfare at the bottom of most of our ills. Orsino Feb 2016 #48
You and I disagree, I think on one thing. kennetha Feb 2016 #52
Economic inequality is linked to racial inequality. Orsino Feb 2016 #56
Definitely in one way you are right. kennetha Feb 2016 #60
Yeah. There's no need to decide which issue must be handled first... Orsino Feb 2016 #72
a meeting of the minds! kennetha Feb 2016 #73
So much work... TL;DR whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #59
short version: Kennetha can read Bernie's mind, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #78
Yeah, kinda got the gist from the title whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #89
A huge K&R - GREAT Post - darn, I am out of hearts CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #140
Dissent will NOT be tolerated. The revolution must proceed. Resistance is futile. Persondem Feb 2016 #63
We need a man with a hammer and nails. It's time to build some wealth Autumn Feb 2016 #64
Kennetha, you wrote: "They have to draw workers from somewhere. floppyboo Feb 2016 #65
What helps the billionaires is a fearful and alienated society. Ron Green Feb 2016 #67
Why don't we have this already? kennetha Feb 2016 #69
"the billionaire class has almost not say in the management of local schools"? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #74
I'd be interested to know your age and experience in matters of Ron Green Feb 2016 #77
I'm an old black guy, father born in the depths of Jim Crow segregation, dirt poor sharecropper. kennetha Feb 2016 #82
OK - I'm an old white guy, grew up in a county 40% black (my first playmates Ron Green Feb 2016 #112
"Moving into post-racial society"? ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #99
See my reply #112. Ron Green Feb 2016 #113
And Hillary is a woman who has a hammer but doesn't believe in using it, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #75
Actually she wants to use the claw end to help pry up the nails. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #83
Yes, because of the world's oldest profession. Festivito Feb 2016 #81
What are your views on capitalist social relations ? AOR Feb 2016 #93
Good stuff. kennetha Feb 2016 #95
Kick and recommend. oasis Feb 2016 #96
BRILLIANT post! Scapegoating ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #98
"He's just a man with a hammer who sees nails everywhere." workinclasszero Feb 2016 #102
"Money trumps peace" azmom Feb 2016 #105
Well at least he doesn't see dollar signs everywhere he looks. n/t nichomachus Feb 2016 #106
Yep, nails everywhere... TCJ70 Feb 2016 #108
Billions are being made on our broken immigration azmom Feb 2016 #109
The US is not a single issue nation Gothmog Feb 2016 #111
Racism thrives in the absence of class solidarity. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2016 #118
So in other words UglyGreed Feb 2016 #120
See, you support the candidate who attacked my basic rights on the basis that her Bible is a hammer Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #123
Great essay, thanks for posting it. Beacool Feb 2016 #124
Another rare post in ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #125
Thanks for the link. Beacool Feb 2016 #129
Agreed. Jensen downplayed ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #132
True... Beacool Feb 2016 #136
I think paid family leave ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #141
Yes, I like Pete Seeger. Beacool Feb 2016 #149
That analogy is used to explain people (like Hillary) who always use the military option when Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #126
How American Thinker of you... stunning imagery. Ellipsis Feb 2016 #130
TL;DR. Stopped at "Comrade Bernie" because the derp started to splash over the rim of the bowl. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #143
Otherwise known as having a coherent message eridani Feb 2016 #144
breaking down all the barriers kennetha Feb 2016 #148
There is nothing in there about what she proposes to do about any of that. n/t eridani Feb 2016 #150
Comrade Sanders? Desperate much? merrily Feb 2016 #151
Quasi-Marxist, is it? PatrickforO Feb 2016 #153
Excellent post. lovemydog Feb 2016 #155
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