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Divernan

(15,480 posts)
150. All lifelong Dems, all politically involved, all 45 or older
Wed Feb 24, 2016, 04:39 AM
Feb 2016

A GS-13 federal employee; an MBA/senior VP at a major national bank; an elected local government level Dem. w/ a J.D.; a full professor (physicist/robotics) at a major university, a retired physician and his wife.

By "politically astute", I meant well-educated people with long-standing, well-informed and discerning understandings of U.S. politics. Although they are not in the Clintons' multi, multi, multi millionaire class, they are all comfortable financially. HRC's expected pro-corporate, pro-Big Finance/Wall Street, militaristic actions as president would not harm them personally - their jobs will not be off-shored; they can afford to send their children and grandchildren to university and graduate schools; their children/grand children will never be conned into enlisting in the military to fight for corporate interests.

But they are concerned for the well-being of the United States as a whole, about the transfer of wealth and for the fates of the non-one-percenters and future generations. They are each anti-fracking, anti Trans Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreements; are not spooked by the term Democratic Socialist; understand the cause and effect relationship between the US/CIA's decades of political machinations and arms supplies to central American countries and the flood of political refugees and parents desperately trying to smuggle their children to the relative safety of the U.S.

In short, they are old-school, traditional liberals - not 3rd Way pro-oligarchy "democrats".

My post did not claim to be any kind of poll or statistic. I referred to individuals from 3 states. I have long-standing friendships with each. I note from your profile that you live in D.C. If you are a government employee, a lobbyist or have some kind of employment involving either the current Democratic administration or relating to an elected official of either party, I doubt that the people with whom you work would risk publicly admitting to you whether they are considering voting for Trump. My friends/relatives each expressed surprise, i.e., some version of "I never thought I'd say this, but . . . " at coming to the conclusion re Trump v. Hillary.

And, of course, their first choice for the presidency is Bernie Sanders, who speaks directly to their values and concerns for the future of this country.

We need to get Sanders the nomination. Only he can beat the Rs. peacebird Feb 2016 #1
I think Bernie would be best, but safeinOhio Feb 2016 #2
If that's the case..... daleanime Feb 2016 #5
I'm hearing politically astute Dems say they'd vote Trump over HRC Divernan Feb 2016 #15
So these "politically astute dems" are willing to overlook sufrommich Feb 2016 #23
Yes - they consider HRC's pro-prison;pro welfare-"reform; pro-returning brown-skinned Divernan Feb 2016 #31
Are your "friends" OK with banning muslims sufrommich Feb 2016 #40
You've misunderstood the situation EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #57
Excellent response EdwardBernays! monicaangela Feb 2016 #78
I will never stay home. hifiguy Feb 2016 #110
I have to agree. HRC does not inspire the masses to support her. She has an uphill WestSeattle2 Feb 2016 #134
Perfectly stated Lorien Feb 2016 #152
AGREED! 100% CorporatistNation Feb 2016 #163
EdwardBernays reads this one perfectly correctly, IMHO as they say. highprincipleswork Feb 2016 #157
I have a feeling Hillary supporter's concern over Muslims JoeyT Feb 2016 #62
Thank you for bringing this up JoeyT monicaangela Feb 2016 #85
Yes, her ME record is terrible. cprise Feb 2016 #146
To mention a few! Duval Feb 2016 #43
Spot ON!!! monicaangela Feb 2016 #76
What's fucking clear to me............. serbbral Feb 2016 #83
Some might, monicaangela Feb 2016 #91
@monicaangela serbbral Feb 2016 #105
There are not enough registered minority Democrats TM99 Feb 2016 #133
Please..... serbbral Feb 2016 #153
The youth and the independents also turned TM99 Feb 2016 #160
Indeed. 2banon Feb 2016 #162
These "Dems" support a racist, misogynist, anti-choice, anti-same sex marriage candidate. onenote Feb 2016 #53
Where does that get you? Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #61
Trump is the the left of Hillary maindawg Feb 2016 #116
You are correct StoneCarver Feb 2016 #127
No Dem who was politically astute would let a Republican... Nitram Feb 2016 #28
Dunno how far I count in that metric since I fell Democratic till 2013, when I switched to Ind VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #30
Your issue is who is more pro-war, Hillary or Trump. Divernan Feb 2016 #38
To be fair, VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #42
Spot ON! monicaangela Feb 2016 #93
you don't remember how Trump was buddie-buddie /w Gaddafi along /w the Bushgangs decade of rule? Sunlei Feb 2016 #158
Doesn't mean it's ok for an alleged Democrat to laugh at his death. n/t VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #159
Politically astute and voting for Trump are mutually exclusive mythology Feb 2016 #32
Ding Ding Ding!!! onenote Feb 2016 #54
Most realize that HRC's recent Road-To-Damascus Progressive 'conversion'... will last about as AzDar Feb 2016 #72
Reading comprehension is a must... monicaangela Feb 2016 #94
Those are not politically astute Dems tiredtoo Feb 2016 #75
Then they are not "politically astute." They are idiots. nt Adrahil Feb 2016 #82
I'm hearing the same thing - in liberal Seattle of all places. Blue collar Dem guys - can't stand WestSeattle2 Feb 2016 #126
Trump over HRC......yeah Newtownian Feb 2016 #135
I would not vote for trump Pharaoh Feb 2016 #136
Doesn't read like that from here. Kingofalldems Feb 2016 #138
All lifelong Dems, all politically involved, all 45 or older Divernan Feb 2016 #150
I think that's most likely true. Vinca Feb 2016 #3
I think you may be correct peacebird Feb 2016 #4
He would also run to Clinton's left on Iraq eridani Feb 2016 #5
Which, let's face it, would be very attractive to a lot of democrats.... daleanime Feb 2016 #7
He'll be to her left on Iraq, Trade, Money in Politics pengu Feb 2016 #8
+1000 Shadowflash Feb 2016 #65
the party's been so used to blaming us naughty lefties for wanting too much and taking our votes MisterP Feb 2016 #107
It takes as little as 10% of the people to start a revolution. n/t WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2016 #117
I can readily imagine that happening. hifiguy Feb 2016 #111
Trump supporters really only have two issues randr Feb 2016 #13
3 issues - don't forget racism and xenophobia. nt Lucky Luciano Feb 2016 #19
I tend to assume this is their inner nature randr Feb 2016 #25
No randr, they hate a lot more Democrats than the Clintons. Nitram Feb 2016 #29
Just a few items from that long list. WHEN CRABS ROAR Feb 2016 #119
Republicans hate the Clintons and they have decades of practice. earthshine Feb 2016 #147
Your only mistake, shine, and it's a big one is to assume... Nitram Feb 2016 #164
I agree that both H & B would face equal opposition in Congress. earthshine Feb 2016 #165
Tend to agree with ya marions ghost Feb 2016 #81
My sentiments exactly Vinca! monicaangela Feb 2016 #95
i really really hope you're wrong 0rganism Feb 2016 #121
I think their top priority is to keep outsiders out, and to get a 0.1%er into the WH. So I don't GoneFishin Feb 2016 #9
^^This^^ It's more important than winning. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2016 #46
I think people on the left are better tuned into who is to blame. But at least some on the right GoneFishin Feb 2016 #101
Is it? "Anti-establishment" isn't clear to me Recursion Feb 2016 #10
I'm not saying it's well thought out. In fact, I'd say much of it cali Feb 2016 #14
When has that not been true? (nt) Recursion Feb 2016 #17
"Anti-establishment" kills "experience" as a selling point. Barack_America Feb 2016 #21
And oh my god, the way Trump has obliterated people for political experience... intersectionality Feb 2016 #71
Sad but true intersectionality monicaangela Feb 2016 #97
"I'm not saying it's well thought out. In fact, I'd say much of it is the opposite." NCTraveler Feb 2016 #161
An end to the pay-to-play status quo Cowpunk Feb 2016 #18
I've heard that on RW radio since 1990 or so (nt) Recursion Feb 2016 #20
And doesn't it strike you as odd ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #22
I don't think we're allowed to go there in GDP... Recursion Feb 2016 #24
True YCHDT Feb 2016 #149
The Republicans were smart enough to dump Jeb and we Democrats have also been smart ... oh, wait Vote2016 Feb 2016 #11
We'll run whoever gets the most delegates. Codeine Feb 2016 #12
And it's a system that is as rigged as hifiguy Feb 2016 #112
This is what I went to bed thinking about... Barack_America Feb 2016 #16
Agree marions ghost Feb 2016 #87
That would be the DWS approach Thespian2 Feb 2016 #26
Ain't democracy grand? workinclasszero Feb 2016 #27
yes it will timmymoff Feb 2016 #33
People that don't follow politics like the people on this board workinclasszero Feb 2016 #39
What is interesting is that is the SAME thing Cosmocat Feb 2016 #49
Republicans are insane nativists workinclasszero Feb 2016 #63
True story Cosmocat Feb 2016 #84
So true workinclasszero Feb 2016 #88
YEP Cosmocat Feb 2016 #92
You know they would! workinclasszero Feb 2016 #108
Some of us have more than one vote(superdelegates, shenanigans at the caucuses/polls) jhart3333 Feb 2016 #60
Working harder is how monicaangela Feb 2016 #98
Why wouldn't the dominant philosophy of the dominant leaders dominate sentiments HereSince1628 Feb 2016 #34
Yep. Bernie capture the anti-establisment vote for the left Elmergantry Feb 2016 #35
Perhaps the anti-establishment aren't the party base that they thought they were Tarc Feb 2016 #36
Hillary is winning the base of the democratic party big time. workinclasszero Feb 2016 #41
She owes a lot of that to Bill, and some to noiretextatique Feb 2016 #114
Give me a reason why this won't work? LemmingWarrior Feb 2016 #37
If Bernie doesn't get the nom LittleGirl Feb 2016 #44
+1 except I am in Minnesota, hifiguy Feb 2016 #113
I'm glad to hear LittleGirl Feb 2016 #145
That's my thought too. nt Waiting For Everyman Feb 2016 #52
Bernie wants to uninstall corporatocracy and restore democracy. Snarkoleptic Feb 2016 #45
That's a great line. JudyM Feb 2016 #68
It's going to be a nightmare if HRC wins the primary Android3.14 Feb 2016 #47
More helpful outreach Cosmocat Feb 2016 #48
Your argument is predicated on Trump winning or running the table. FSogol Feb 2016 #50
I would NEVER vote for Trump Harriety Feb 2016 #51
I'm with you Harriety monicaangela Feb 2016 #99
Don't worry, they're already blaming Sanders supporters for her loss in the general Chathamization Feb 2016 #55
I've always found the Ted Cruz argument to be farcical. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #56
Then why are you losing, op? eom artyteacher Feb 2016 #58
B..b..but Bernie is establishment too! Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #59
@Jester Messiah serbbral Feb 2016 #106
She has more freight than that.... humbled_opinion Feb 2016 #64
Funny how Democracy works, isn't it. leftofcool Feb 2016 #66
Odd phrasing you have there. You do understand that Bernie is way ahead in the popular vote. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #123
They do not realize RoccoR5955 Feb 2016 #67
The Anti-Establishment Mood is Very Strong On the Road Feb 2016 #69
If the voter turnout is any indication from the last of these events................... turbinetree Feb 2016 #70
So Bernie can't win the nomination redstateblues Feb 2016 #73
Exactly cali! monicaangela Feb 2016 #74
I have been talking to some politically astute Republicans tiredtoo Feb 2016 #77
The dynamics in this election are so bad Cosmocat Feb 2016 #90
Personally i support Bernie tiredtoo Feb 2016 #100
You want NOTHING to do with Rubio Cosmocat Feb 2016 #102
Well, i guess we have to agree to disagree tiredtoo Feb 2016 #103
Not sure that that sentiment is prevailing. Orsino Feb 2016 #79
We want fresh air! JonathanRackham Feb 2016 #80
Cali, it's a psyche game right now Matariki Feb 2016 #86
I don't think so. NCTraveler Feb 2016 #89
Hillary is completely unelectable. Luckily for America, Bernie has a path to the Whitehouse. (nt) w4rma Feb 2016 #96
Friends tiredtoo Feb 2016 #104
She is a disaster waiting to happen in the GE. hifiguy Feb 2016 #109
Anti-establishment = Patriots, pro-establishment: tories, loyalists AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #115
It's almost as if they don't mind losing... truebluegreen Feb 2016 #118
K & R Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #120
Wait, wait . . . . . don't forget . . . .. pdsimdars Feb 2016 #122
yes it is clear azureblue Feb 2016 #124
Brilliance Is No Longer Part Of The DNC DWS DLC Third-Way Establishment Party cantbeserious Feb 2016 #125
Establishment .... or rather Outlaw Country? Babel_17 Feb 2016 #128
Brilliant is right LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #129
Worst Candidate Ever mhatrw Feb 2016 #130
That certainly seems to be the strategy. Kall Feb 2016 #131
I'm starting to realize Donald Trump is actually going to be president. fbc Feb 2016 #132
Too small a sample and too soon for such a judgment. onenote Feb 2016 #137
"The anti-establishment vote is far larger than the "I'm just fine with the establishment" vote." Tarc Feb 2016 #139
Yep. The one thing Bernie and Trump have in common is anti-establishment. Hiraeth Feb 2016 #140
. Go Vols Feb 2016 #141
Well said! Don Draper Feb 2016 #142
Yep. Bernie can win, if we can prevail against the Clinton campaign, PatrickforO Feb 2016 #143
"Hillary has all the freight..." dchill Feb 2016 #144
Debbie showed in 2014 that the status quo can win, even without millennials! Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #148
Disestablishers and antidisestablishers. The antidisestablishers have the money, media and power. merrily Feb 2016 #151
Have you yelled out the window lately? Major Hogwash Feb 2016 #154
Get back in line sheep! iamthebandfanman Feb 2016 #155
I vow NEVER to vote for Hillary ! It's Bernie ALL the Way, Even If I have to write him in. urbuddha Feb 2016 #156
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