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HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
34. IMO wherever market incentives don't work private enterprise/free markets shouldn't
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:13 PM
Feb 2016

I basically agree with what you've said, although I'm not real certain about elections being wholly publicly funded.

But by nature I'm sort of like Bernie Sanders, a person that doesn't want to get lost pursuing details in the tall grass at the start. I sort of like contemplating general rules.

Most generally I don't think free market capitalism should be allowed to work where it causes harm to individuals and or communities/states/nations.

Government exists to protect us from bad things. Mostly that's from things that other people (foreign and domestic) intentionally (and often with malice/selfishness but sometimes with indifference or negligence) do to the rest of us.

One of those places that markets don't work is where there are monopolies, or where there are incentives for collusion to reduce competition and to get into price gouging/price setting. Just because consumer traffic will unhappily bear a cost, doesn't mean that it's good for the community that a capitalist/investor should make the price as high as possible. The only way monopolies should exist is a public enterprises, where any push for profit puts the profit in the hands of the investor/tax-payer. Where communities allow monopolies (such as in utilities) pricing has to be tightly regulated.

Another place where things don't work is where circumstance compromises consumers' capacity to be discerning purchasers. One of those places is healthcare. People will always get very sick, sooner or later deathly sick and people who care for them are going to be in awful places where their reasoning defaults to "do everything" rather than doing what's reasonable. Sick children especially, but sick intimates and sick close relatives create these circumstances and in that circumstance Having consumers in that tight spot isn't an excuse to over-charge but it certainly is in the capitalist model.

Another place where things don't work is where 'insider clubs' are created that give some "member' consumers a break and then grossly price gouge others... mostly to create the illusion of a discount to the insiders. These circumstances incentivize gouging because the service provider needs a very high 'regular sticker price' so that a 'discounted' price can be offered to people who become members. This promotes upward pressure on prices because it creates 'innate value' that should be harvested by business. This clubbing thing is done in relatively small ways for most retail, but it's done in huge ways with health insurance and health-care. It's perverse for an emergency room to charge more for a poor, jobless person. It's as perverse for anyone to pay $20 dollars for a days plastic ware or a day's facial and toilet tissue as it is to pay $5000 for an MRI that could reasonably be priced at $500 (including typical profit margin). It's perverse to lie about discounts while raking in profits from the money students borrow. But it's especially perverse that these inflated prices are used to mostly to have a circumstance where fake discounts still yield inflated prices.

I can go on, but you get the idea. In circumstances where free market incentives produce perverse, unwanted, commonly harmful outcomes, the market shouldn't be free at all. In the same way, where insistence on public enterprise would result in perverse, unwanted, commonly harmful outcomes, private ownership and private markets shouldn't be excluded.

There are perfectly good places for private enterprises which really can promote some 'good'' within communities. In particular, circumstances wherein high risk that tax-dollars would yield benefits to too few is a great place for private ownership and open-markets. And in this, I'm thinking about things such as sports/entertainment venues. And that doesn't mean that there aren't circumstances in which a community may want to incentivize private investment in order to provide to the community a product that would otherwise be unavailable.



Bernie's campaign was not ever about free stuff, but always about corruption. Those sneering at Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #1
I know. But I wish he and other Dems would talk more about public goods. eridani Feb 2016 #37
I hear you, he talks primarily about what blocks our efforts. A constant uphill battle Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #42
I think we all know by now that the Clinton wing of the party Doctor_J Feb 2016 #2
They are essentially pro-choice Republicans. [n/t] Maedhros Feb 2016 #32
And barely that Hydra Feb 2016 #35
It's bizarro world when you're attacked with repug words. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #3
The Repub policies are even more worriisome. n/t eridani Feb 2016 #5
It's weird that it's "free stuff" when the money goes to the general public winter is coming Feb 2016 #4
^^^This^^^ -none Feb 2016 #6
Good point! AllyCat Feb 2016 #9
+1 daleanime Feb 2016 #12
Fantastic! Great expose of corporate propaganda. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #24
Free stuff for corporations KansDem Feb 2016 #25
Exactly Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #30
If your house catches fire, a capitalist wouldn't care, if it ignites his, he does. HereSince1628 Feb 2016 #7
Excellent arguement and NOT boriing. maddiemom Feb 2016 #10
"I'm less able to tell you ..." CrispyQ Feb 2016 #20
IMO wherever market incentives don't work private enterprise/free markets shouldn't HereSince1628 Feb 2016 #34
I had a conservative tell me today that taxes pay for roads and schools and that is not AllyCat Feb 2016 #8
I don't know about youse guys.... griloco Feb 2016 #11
Thanks Mexico! TheUndecider Feb 2016 #29
The folks with jobs pay taxes to educate kids that will become folks with jobs bigbrother05 Feb 2016 #13
Yet we have some UglyGreed Feb 2016 #14
Not one word when the free stuff was going to the 1% jillan Feb 2016 #15
Privatize profit, socialize losses. The 1% anthem. kairos12 Feb 2016 #16
And yet they manage to call it capitalism without laughing out loud. -nt CrispyQ Feb 2016 #19
It's a successful Big Lie. DirkGently Feb 2016 #17
We don't teach civics in school anymore so the concept of The Commons is being lost. CrispyQ Feb 2016 #18
The free stuff meme just bugs the heck out of me. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #21
It makes me loathe Clinton even more than I already did that she inspires CharlotteVale Feb 2016 #22
It's interesting how they understand the "spread the risk" and "spread the benefit" concepts TBF Feb 2016 #23
It isn't just the GOPers. It's some of the Clinton supporters, too, right here The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2016 #26
And the trillions we've spent slaughtering and maiming tens and tens of thousands of Iraqis? Arugula Latte Feb 2016 #31
Thank you. The contempt some here have toward educating our young people is appalling. myrna minx Feb 2016 #40
...And is a distraction for the big-ass freebies wingers love handing out. n/t Orsino Feb 2016 #27
Recommended and very well said. eom guillaumeb Feb 2016 #28
Well, not really ALago1 Feb 2016 #33
The parasites are the rich who confiscate everyone else's labor. eridani Feb 2016 #39
There is so much wrong with this post... white_wolf Mar 2016 #44
We the People of the United States SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #36
Free stuff indeed coyote Feb 2016 #38
+1. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #41
Excellent graphic==thx for aharing n/t eridani Mar 2016 #43
K&R nt Live and Learn Mar 2016 #45
People sneering about 'Free stuff' Kentonio Mar 2016 #46
Public goods are socialist, period. n/t eridani Mar 2016 #47
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