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2016 Postmortem

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H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 09:07 PM Feb 2016

Campaigns vs Movements [View all]

One of the most interesting phenomenon of the Democratic Party’s 2016 presidential primary contest is the tension between the manner that supporters of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton view the process. I say this, not in an attempt to present it as “right vs. wrong,” as the differences are ones of opinion, after evaluating the same basic materials.

As a Bernie supporter, who will vote for the party’s nominee, I understand that -- for example -- I view the Clinton campaign’s refusal to release the transcripts from her talks to Goldman Sachs much differently than do my friends who support Hillary. We look at the same general set of facts, and come to very different conclusions.

And that’s okay. There is no good reason for the growing hostilities that exist between the supporters of each candidate. There are very real differences between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. Those differences include what each one would seek to if elected. More, these differences will determine the outcome of the presidential election in November.

In my opinion, the biggest difference between the two candidate’s supporters is this: there is a Clinton campaign versus a Sanders movement. Just my opinion, nothing more. I suspect that more of the DU community that supports Bernie would agree, though, than those supporting Hillary.

One reality that both camps share is that no person, no matter how intelligent and insightful, can properly judge the historic significance -- and ultimate value -- of a movement, while it is happening. That is distinct from a campaign: we know the results of elections shortly after they are held -- unless the machine decides to interfere, as in 2000. But, even then, we knew within a short time who won, and that the US Supreme Court was overturning the outcome.

Both campaigns and movements can represent what is good in our political life. There comes times when each are appropriate. And, at their peak of potential, each can coordinate with the other. But even then, the true impact of a movement will be impossible to fully judge at the time. Specific gains can be measured, but the sum total cannot. Let’s look at few relatively recent movements, and take an objective view of their worth.

In the lifetime of the “baby-boomer” generation, we have seen the civil rights movement; the anti-war movement; the women’s movement; rights for the disabled movement; gay and lesbian rights movement; the anti-nuke movement; the environmental movement; and, most recently, the Occupy movement. Although these may appear diverse, they all share a common goal: to expand social justice, by recognizing the human rights of people who were marginalized by society. More, while they provide safety and protections for human beings, they did not infringe upon the rights of others in any manner whatsoever.

They have more in common, my friends. In virtually every case, they faced the opposition of an entrenched group, who were intent upon denying others their human rights. More, they had to deal with an even larger group of people who may have been sympathetic to their cause, in theory, but who were convinced that “now is not the time.” Friends who believed the activists wanted too much progress, too soon. The best example of this can be found in the clergy who, from the comfort and luxury of their homes, told Martin Luther King that they were with him as he sat in the dark in dreary cell in the Birmingham jail, but that he needed to slow down. To be patient.

I suppose is it easier to be patient, when you are comfortable. And so it would make sense to support a campaign that promises to extend your comfort level, especially in uncomfortable times. Yet, for those who are denied those “comforts,” it would seem self-defeating to merely campaign. And when the numbers of those that society pushes outside the margins becomes, as it is today, a majority, a campaign is not as attractive as a movement.

The Occupy movement showed the beauty and power of this. It highlighted the insanity of allowing the 1% to exercise “majority rule” in this country. Occupy put into effect a simple truth of movements: if you want people to behave differently, you must first help them to think differently. And that’s the proper place for patience. But, on the flip side, with that patience must come creative tension.

The Sanders movement (aka Sanders revolution) was, at first, incorrectly perceived as a “pipe dream” by the Democratic Party’s establishment. Surprise, surprise! As Bernie stated, “Do not underestimate me.” Yet the establishment, including those organizing the Clinton campaign, absolutely underestimated Bernie Sanders, because they viewed his challenge as coming from an intelligent, sincere man who has inhabited the margin of the US Senate. The Clinton campaign had not hired a weatherman to tell them which way the winds blow.

One example of this, in my opinion, can be found in the actions of an honorable man, Rep. John Lewis. I consider him a hero. He was a powerful member of the civil rights movement, who used advances in voting rights, to become a voice of conscience in Washington, DC. He was -- and is -- the type of human being that we want in government. For we want decent, honorable people inside of the government’s establishment.

Yet, some of the tactics he used in initially endorsing Hillary were wrong. That doesn’t mean he is less than a hero. It means, rather, that years within the establishment can influence most people’s values. Like many other good people, Rep. Lewis believes that we are better served by a campaign, than a movement. I’d like him to listen to Neil Young’s song, “Old Man.” Because in his younger days, he, too, heard some of his elders say that “now is not the time for a movement.”

By treating the Sanders movement as if it were simply another campaign, I believe that those in the Clinton campaign will do so much damage that it risks the fall election. As I’ve noted, based upon general elections coming down to states, I am fully confident that Bernie Sanders will win against any republican. But I do not think that Hillary would be in the same position. She might well win, but it will be a tougher fight. And among the reasons for that is the old Democratic Party belief that progressives have nowhere else to go. That tends to be true in campaign contests, but not so for movements.

Peace,
H2O Man

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Campaigns vs Movements [View all] H2O Man Feb 2016 OP
You always talk about topics that I had not thought about, my dear H20 Man. CaliforniaPeggy Feb 2016 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #9
You are always a learning experience! shraby Feb 2016 #2
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #10
That's why I spent most of my life reading non-fiction. shraby Feb 2016 #101
Thanks H2O Man noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #3
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #11
Another excellent thought provoking op, H2O Man! beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #4
Well, thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #51
That's an excellent essay as usual. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #5
Thanks, Uncle Joe! H2O Man Feb 2016 #52
K and R...again cyberswede Feb 2016 #6
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #53
K&R. I agree, well said. ms liberty Feb 2016 #7
Thanks, ms liberty! H2O Man Feb 2016 #54
Mr. Man you have hit the nail squarely on the head! Raster Feb 2016 #8
Well said! H2O Man Feb 2016 #56
Thank you. Raster Feb 2016 #100
Exactly. H2O Man Feb 2016 #115
of course Hillary supporters would disagree bigtree Feb 2016 #12
Thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #57
I apologize bigtree Feb 2016 #72
don't want to quibble, but please be clear this isn't "Bernie's Movement" it's OUR movement. 2banon Feb 2016 #75
Interesting. H2O Man Feb 2016 #76
it was a movement and a crisis focused on a central and compelling theme bigtree Feb 2016 #82
To those who H2O Man Feb 2016 #83
I fully agree! bigtree Feb 2016 #89
brilliantly put, as always. as crystal clear as spring H2O! NRaleighLiberal Feb 2016 #13
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man Feb 2016 #58
Thank you. A very different perspective and much to think about sarge43 Feb 2016 #14
Thanks, sarge43! H2O Man Feb 2016 #59
This movement has been going on for quite a long time RoccoR5955 Feb 2016 #15
Absolutely! H2O Man Feb 2016 #60
Thank you, H2O Man. It clarified what I was thinking but could not articulate. nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #16
Thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #61
Yes, I too can recognize an Ancient One. kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #62
Perspective, H2O Man. You really know how to put things in perspective. Martin Eden Feb 2016 #17
Thank you very much! H2O Man Feb 2016 #63
Another wonderfully thoughtful and illuminating piece to think about as I drift off to sleep. PWPippin Feb 2016 #18
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #64
Funny- or not! I drifted off on the wings of a great and inspiring movement. PWPippin Feb 2016 #92
You are The Best! H2O Man Feb 2016 #113
Thank YOU! Onward! Sleep well. PWPippin Feb 2016 #117
Great thread erlewyne Feb 2016 #19
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #65
It's not a movement when they dont show up and vote. Lucinda Feb 2016 #20
Exactly. H2O Man Feb 2016 #66
Since you brought Occupy nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #21
What about WTO Seattle? tk2kewl Feb 2016 #34
Historians will have a healhty discussion, becuase the resistance to the WTO nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #35
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #67
Now that is a hell of connection that will escape nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #73
Right! H2O Man Feb 2016 #77
And there it is. ejbr Feb 2016 #22
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #68
K&R. Well said. Overseas Feb 2016 #23
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #69
K&R Paka Feb 2016 #24
Thank you, Paka. H2O Man Feb 2016 #70
This is a great short essay. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #25
Well said. H2O Man Feb 2016 #78
Peace warrprayer Feb 2016 #26
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #79
I'm with Lucinda on this . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #27
He has worked with Tim Canova who is currently running for DWS' place. Gregorian Feb 2016 #29
Someone the other night posted a list of Bernie Democrats Ned_Devine Feb 2016 #31
Sabrina did ...... H2O Man Feb 2016 #37
Thanks Mr. Ned and Grego . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #38
See post #37 ..... H2O Man Feb 2016 #80
I find your analysis to be seriously flawed. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #28
Can you explain what we have gained over the last quarter century that you worry will be lost? tk2kewl Feb 2016 #33
Perhaps you didn't read my long post closely. Allow me to digress. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #36
Besides gay marriage none of those things represent gains over the last 25 yrs. tk2kewl Feb 2016 #48
Then please enlighten my assumption. What age group do you belong to ? Trust Buster Feb 2016 #50
Why would it matter? tk2kewl Feb 2016 #55
What is your favorite color? H2O Man Feb 2016 #85
What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow? tk2kewl Feb 2016 #87
Actually, those are H2O Man Feb 2016 #84
Your post make no sense. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #90
You are silly, H2O Man Feb 2016 #91
I'm silly by definition ? Kind have just debunked the purpose of your own OP. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #97
I apologize. H2O Man Feb 2016 #114
You definitely have some ego there. I think I touched a nerve. It's all good though. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #116
My funny bone. H2O Man Feb 2016 #118
Respectfully disagree Mr. Trust . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #39
I was referring to Bernie's legislative agenda. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #40
Ya know, Dick Cheney worked really hard . . FairWinds Feb 2016 #42
I like the idea of Bernie's movement. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #47
Your argument is based on the premise that Bernie would lose the general election. Martin Eden Feb 2016 #71
Right. Exactly right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #81
Kick azmom Feb 2016 #30
Thank you Ali-96 Feb 2016 #32
Thank you! H2O Man Feb 2016 #86
Excellent, excellent post, H2OMan. Blue_In_AK Feb 2016 #41
Thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #93
substance(!) most deserving of k&r iAZZZo Feb 2016 #43
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #94
the "good people" you describe iAZZZo Feb 2016 #96
Wonderful! K&R myrna minx Feb 2016 #44
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #95
Indeed. A campaign is for a person and a campaign mmonk Feb 2016 #45
You are right, mmonk! H2O Man Feb 2016 #104
Kick for Saturday morning crowd.... nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #46
Thanks! H2O Man Feb 2016 #105
K&R!!! Once again you read my mind and said it much better than I ever could! Dustlawyer Feb 2016 #49
Thank you, my Friend! H2O Man Feb 2016 #106
WORD! 2banon Feb 2016 #74
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man Feb 2016 #107
A very insightful analysis, thanks. Zorra Feb 2016 #88
Thanks, Zorra! H2O Man Feb 2016 #108
Kick for more eyeballs --- peaceful thoughts is the base for justice nt kgnu_fan Feb 2016 #98
I appreciate it! H2O Man Feb 2016 #109
K&R... ngGale Feb 2016 #99
Great! H2O Man Feb 2016 #110
"easier to be patient, when you are comfortable" SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #102
Right. H2O Man Feb 2016 #111
In some ways Bernie is a continuation of Occupy. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2016 #103
Yes, exactly. H2O Man Feb 2016 #112
I was hoping you would post something. FourScore Feb 2016 #119
Thank you. H2O Man Feb 2016 #120
^ Zorra Feb 2016 #121
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