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polly7

(20,582 posts)
13. And 'I'll post this again'.
Fri Mar 4, 2016, 05:45 PM
Mar 2016

Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 07:08 PM - Edit history (2)

If you think Clinton - well aware of PNAC, the 'seven countries in five years' plan didn't know exactly how Libya was long planned for 'regime change', you weren't paying attention.

Start here:

Exposed: The "Humanitarian" War In Libya

Check this out - 'The Humanitarian War' = http://www.laguerrehumanitaire.fr/english It's horrifying. (Videos now here - I watched them on the original site when all of it was happening and posted these here at DU) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article29428.htm

Must watch videos, the western trained NTC 'Prime Minister' - 'word to ear!' was the source of the 'data (all unofficial and lies, of course) that led to the UN resolution.

A bunch of LIES submitted to the ICC ..... by the UN - who got their 'numbers and crimes' from the western trained NTC Prime Minister - 'word to ear'. Pages and pages redacted.

No Evidence? No Problem!!

How the CIA Used "Libyan Expatriates" To Engineer Consent For Regime Change

One of the main sources for the claim that Qaddafi was killing his own people is the Libyan League for Human Rights (LLHR), an organization linked to the International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH). On Feb. 21, 2011, LLHR General Secretary Dr. Sliman Bouchuiguir initiated a petition in collaboration with the organization U.N. Watch and the National Endowment for Democracy. This petition was signed by more than 70 NGOs.


Then a few days later, on Feb. 25, Dr. Bouchuiguir went to the U.N. Human Rights Council in order to expose the allegations concerning the crimes of Qaddafi’s government. In July 2011 we went to Geneva to interview Dr. Sliman Bouchuiguir.

"How to circumvent international law and justice 101." - originally published by http://laguerrehumanitaire.fr

A film by Julien Teil

Official Website:
http://laguerrehumanitaire.fr
Official web:
http://thehumanitarianwar.com
Official TV:
http://laguerrehumanitaire-film.rutube.ru/


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What you don't know about the Libyan crisis: (watch the timeline closely)

...

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The horror of Libya - to fulfill the PNAC objective of overthrowing yet another country. "7 countries in 5 years!" This was NO "Humanitarian Intervention", and certainly not for all those migrants Qaddafi had allowed in over decades, Qaddafi loyalists and others who were raped, tortured, mutilated, hung, burned to death .... all known of by the NATO 'humanitarian team'.

It was a bullshit, self-serving, western funded and backed coup against yet another sovereign nation not yet indebted to the IMF and controlling its own resources, not to mention not allowing U.S. bases 'Africom' into all of Africa.


Some of these links don't work anymore, but read and discover just what a sham this was and why. The video at the end is particularly interesting.


The Untold Story in Libya

Posted by polly7 in General Discussion
Tue Oct 18th 2011, 10:06 AM

In May 2010, Libya was voted on to the UN Human Rights Council by a huge majority. The UN Watch's campaign to remove Libya from the Human Rights Council began immediately.

In March, 2011, a report, containing positive quotes from UN diplomatic delegations in many countries, was due to be presented by the UN Human Rights Council, leading to a Resolution commending Libya's progress in a wide aspect of human rights (listed in the article). March 19, 2011, the attack on Libya began.

Libya was one of only five countries without a Rothschild model central bank, Quaddafi openly discussed, in 2009, the nationalization of US, UK, Germany, Spain, Norway, Canada and Italy's oil companies, switching to the gold dinar - a single African currency that would serve as an alternative to the U.S. dollar and allow African nations to share the wealth. Libya has an abundance of water - Gaddafi’s Great Man-Made River Project project offers limitless amounts of water for Libyans and would allow them to be totally self-sufficient. In the near-future, water will be the next resource equated with money and power, other countries may be dependent on its reserves. A self-sufficient, dictator-ruled nation with control over some of the world’s most precious resource waves a big red warning flag.

In 2010 Gaddafi made a motion to the UN General Assembly to investigate the circumstances of the invasion of Iraq. He was also wasting the west's ....... 'libya's' oil on free education, housing, tolerance of immigrants, raising the standard of living in Africa, lowering infant mortality while raising life expectancy.


Many of these things are completely similar to what we learned of Iraq.


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Global Civilians For Peace In Libya

Posted on November 9, 2011 by globalciviliansforpeace

When analysing the standard of living in Libya it is important to put the achievements into context. During the 1950’s under the leadership of King Idris, Libya was among the poorest nations in the world with some of the lowest living standards. From the early 1980’s until 2003 Libya were placed under crippling sanctions by the US and UN which had the result of strangling Libya’s growing economy leading to an inevitable smothering of development projects and social welfare schemes. Despite this The Libyan Arab Jamahiriya had achieved the highest living standard in Africa. Libya has also invested heavily in African development initiatives. The funding of infrastructure projects as well as African political and financial institutions was aimed at developing Africa independently and combating the economic exploitation of African resources and labour by outside powers. On January 4th, 2011 – just weeks before the conflict in Libya started –UN members praised Libya’s continued welfare provision and commitment to upholding human rights.

Public Health Care

Public Health Care in Libya prior to NATO’s “Humanitarian Intervention” was the best in Africa. “Health care is [was] available to all citizens free of charge by the public sector. The country boasts the highest literacy and educational enrolment rates in North Africa. The Government is [was] substantially increasing the development budget for health services…. (WHO Libya Country Brief )

According to the World Health Organization (WHO): Life expectancy at birth was 72.3 years (2009), among the highest in the developing World.

Under 5 mortality rate per 1000 live births declined from 71 in 1991 to 14 in 2009
(http://www.who.int/countryfocus/cooperation_strategy/ccsbrief_lby_en.pdf)

Education

The adult literacy rate was of the order of 89%, (2009), (94% for males and 83% for females). 99.9% of youth are literate (UNESCO 2009 figures, See UNESCO, Libya Country Report)
Gross primary school enrolment ratio was 97% for boys and 97% for girls (2009) .
(see UNESCO tables at http://stats.uis.unesco.org/unesco/TableViewer/document.aspx?ReportId=121&IF_Language=eng&BR_Country=4340&BR_Region=40525

[Extract]

21 February 2011

During Muammar Gaddafi’s 42-year rule, Libya has made great strides socially and economically thanks to its vast oil income, but tribes and clans continue to be part of the demographic landscape.

Women in Libya are free to work and to dress as they like, subject to family constraints. Life expectancy is in the seventies. And per capita income – while not as high as could be expected given Libya’s oil wealth and relatively small population of 6.5m – is estimated at $12,000 (£9,000), according to the World Bank.

Illiteracy has been almost wiped out, as has homelessness – a chronic problem in the pre-Gaddafi era, where corrugated iron shacks dotted many urban centres around the country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-middle-east-12528996

Proud nation

In August 1984, Muammar Al Qadhafi laid the foundation stone for the pipe production plant at Brega. The Great Man-Made River Project had begun.

Click here to see a map of the pipeline network

Libya had oil money to pay for the project, but it did not have the technical or engineering expertise for such a massive undertaking.

Foreign companies from South Korea, Turkey, Germany, Japan, the Philippines and the UK were invited to help.

Water is seen as key to the country’s future prosperity

It is hard to fault the Libyans on their commitment. They estimate that when the Great Man-Made River is completed, they will have spent almost $20bn. So far, that money has bought 5,000km of pipeline that can transport 6.5 million cubic metres of water a day from over 1,000 desert wells.

As a result, Libya is now a world leader in hydrological engineering, and it wants to export its expertise to other African and Middle-Eastern countries facing the same problems with their water.

Through its agriculture, Libya hopes to gain a foothold in Europe’s consumer market.

But the Great Man-Made River Project is much more than an extraordinary piece of engineering.

Adam Kuwairi argues that the success of the Great Man-Made River Project has increased Libya’s standing in the world: “It’s another addition to our independence; it gives us the confidence to survive.”

https://globalciviliansforpeace.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/the-standard-of-living-in-libya/

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Yes, simply put, Nato's member nations are trying to steer back Libya Central Bank into the mainstream financial structure, under the watching eyes of the World Bank and the International Monetary Funds, to provide (reconstruction) funds to Libya with hefty interests payments - and transform a country which was free of debts into a heavily indebted country - as done everywhere else in sub-Saharan African countries.

http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/graphs...
http://businessafrica.net/africabiz/arcvol...

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From a 'no fly zone to all out bombing of targets called out by rebels'. NATO's high-precision bombing preceeded 'rebel' incursions.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MH27Ak03.html

"It's now common knowledge that British SAS, French intelligence, US Central Intelligence Agency assets, Qatar special forces and mercenaries of all stripes were parachuted as boots on the ground for months, planning and training the "rebels" and in close coordination with that philanthropic prodigy, NATO.

That was never the UN mandate - but who cares? NATO/GCC paid the bills, NATO conducted the bombing and NATO/GCC will "stabilize" the mess, according to a 70-page plan leaked by the British to Rupert Murdoch'sz Times of London."

"Expect local - and global - fireworks as far as grabbing the loot is concerned. Without even considering the (still unexplored) oil and gas wealth, Libya's foreign assets are worth at least $150 billion. Libya's central bank, now about to be privatized, has no less than 143.8 tons of gold. Then there's at least a millennium supply of fresh water, which had started to be harnessed by Gaddafi via the spectacular, multibillion dollar Great Man-Made River (GMR) project."

Middle East
Aug 27, 2011

THE ROVING EYE
R2P is now Right 2 Plunder
By Pepe Escobar

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"Oil-rich but with a relatively small population of 6.6. million, Gadhafi's Libya welcomed hundreds of thousands of black Africans looking for work in recent decades. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/l...

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NATO’s War on Libya is an Attack on African Development–Dan Glazebrook

6 09 2011

http://globalciviliansforpeace.com/tag/afr... /

To prevent this ‘threat of African development’, the Europeans and the USA have responded in the only way they know how – militarily. Four years ago, the US set up a new “command and control centre” for the military subjugation of the Africa, called AFRICOM. The problem for the US was that no African country wanted to host them; indeed, until very recently, Africa was unique in being the only continent in the world without a US military base. And this fact is in no small part, thanks to the efforts of the Libyan government.
Before Gaddafi’s revolution deposed the British-backed King Idris in 1969, Libya had hosted one of the world’s biggest US airbases, the Wheelus Air Base; but within a year of the revolution, it had been closed down and all foreign military personnel expelled.
More recently, Gaddafi had been actively working to scupper AFRICOM. African governments that were offered money by the US to host a base were typically offered double by Gaddafi to refuse it, and in 2008 this ad-hoc opposition crystallised into a formal rejection of AFRICOM by the African Union.

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The force used by the occupier to displace the old regime always makes sure the new regime is supine and complaint. The National Transitional Council, made up of former Gadhafi loyalists, Islamists and tribal leaders, many of whom detest each other, will be the West’s vehicle for the reconfiguration of Libya. Libya will return to being the colony it was before Gadhafi and the other young officers in 1969 ousted King Idris, who among other concessions had let Standard Oil write Libya’s petroleum laws. Gadhafi’s defiance of Western commercial interests, which saw the nationalization of foreign banks and foreign companies, along with the oil industry, as well as the closure of U.S. and British air bases, will be reversed. The despotic and collapsed or collapsing regimes in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Syria once found their revolutionary legitimacy in the pan-Arabism of Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser. But these regimes fell victim to their own corruption, decay and brutality. None were worth defending. Their disintegration, however, heralds a return of the corporate and imperial power that spawned figures like Nasser and will spawn his radical 21st century counterparts.

Libya: Here We Go Again

Monday 5 September 2011
by: Chris Hedges, Truthdig | Op-Ed

http://www.truthout.com/libya-here-we-go-a...

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LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others

http://somalilandpress.com/libya-rebels-ex...

"Many Africans have virtually nothing after years in Libya, many have been looted, robbed, while others saw their living quarters and apartments go in flames. Now they are praying to God to send them home.
While the international leaders are busy drafting resolutions to dismantle Muammar Gaddafi, the African Union has not yet commented on the situation in Libya.

Meanwhile, the International Criminal Court is said to have started a formal inquiry into possible crimes against humanity in Libya that will investigate the Libyan regime."

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JohnPilger.com
8 September 2011

http://johnpilger.com/articles/hail-to-the...

..."I quote that not so much for its Orwellian quality but as a model of journalism's role in justifying "our" bloodbaths in advance.
This is Rupert's Revolution, after all. Gone from the Murdoch press are pejorative "insurgents". The action in Libya, says The Times, is "a revolution... as revolutions used to be". That it is a coup by a gang of Muammar Gaddafi's ex cronies and spooks in collusion with Nato is hardly news.

The self-appointed "rebel leader", Mustafa Abdul Jalil, was Gaddafi's feared justice minister. The CIA runs or bankrolls most of the rest, including America's old friends, the Mujadeen Islamists who spawned al-Qaeda.
They told journalists what they needed to know: that Gaddafi was about to commit "genocide", of which there was no evidence, unlike the abundant evidence of "rebel" massacres of black African workers falsely accused of being mercenaries. European bankers' secret transfer of the Central Bank of Libya from Tripoli to "rebel" Benghazi by European bankers in order to control the country's oil billions was an epic heist of little .

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Sirte a 'living hell,' says aid group

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/co...

Tuesday 04 October 2011 by Our Foreign Desk Printable Email

A Red Cross team finally entered the besieged Libyan town of Sirte yesterday and delivered urgently needed surgical supplies to treat about 200 wounded people.

Nato has repeatedly targeted Sirte in its seven-month bombing campaign that enabled armed rebels to topple the government of Muammar Gadaffi and gain control of most of the oil-rich state.

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Absolutely horrible to use rape as a propaganda weapon for war, while ignoring the reality of it for all those brutalized, raped and some, murdered by the NATO supported 'rebels' - just one example of their many atrocities.

********* http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2174087 **********

http://andrewgavinmarshall.com/2011/08/26/lies-war-and-empire-nato’s-“humanitarian-imperialism”-in-libya

In early March of 2011, news headlines in Western nations reported that Gaddafi would kill half a million people.

<1> On March 18, as the UN agreed to launch air strikes on Libya, it was reported that Gaddafi had begun an assault against the rebel-held town of Benghazi. The Daily Mail reported that Gaddafi had threatened to send in his African mercenaries to crush the rebellion.<2> Reports of Libyan government tanks sitting outside Benghazi poised for an invasion were propagated in the Western media.<3> In the lead-up to the United Nations imposing a no-fly zone, reports spread rapidly through the media of Libyan government jets bombing the rebels.<4> Even in February, the New York Times – the sacred temple for the ‘stenographers of power’ we call “journalists” – reported that Gaddafi was amassing “thousands of mercenaries” to defend Tripoli and crush the rebels.<5>

Italy’s Foreign Minister declared that over 1,000 people were killed in the fighting in February, citing the number as “credible.”<6> Even a top official with Human Rights Watch declared the rebels to be “peaceful protesters” who “are nice, sincere people who want a better future for Libya.”<7> The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights declared that “thousands” of people were likely killed by Gaddafi, “and called for international intervention to protect civilians.”<8> In April, reports spread near and far at lightning speed of Gaddafi’s forces using rape as a weapon of war, with the first sentence in a Daily Mail article declaring, “Children as young as eight are being raped in front of their families by Gaddafi’s forces in Libya,” with Gaddafi handing out Viagra to his troops in a planned and organized effort to promote rape.<9>

As it turned out, these claims – as posterity notes – turned out to be largely false and contrived. Doctors Without Borders and Amnesty International both investigated the claims of rape, and “have found no first-hand evidence in Libya that rapes are systematic and being used as part of war strategy,” and their investigations in Eastern Libya “have not turned up significant hard evidence supporting allegations of rapes by Qaddafi’s forces.” Yet, just as these reports came out, Hillary Clinton declared that the U.S. is “deeply concerned by reports of wide-scale rape” in Libya.<10> Even U.S. military and intelligence officials had to admit that, “there is no evidence that Libyan military forces are being given Viagra and engaging in systematic rape against women in rebel areas”; at the same time Susan Rice, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, “told a closed-door meeting of officials at the UN that the Libyan military is using rape as a weapon in the war with the rebels and some had been issued the anti-impotency drug. She reportedly offered no evidence to backup the claim.”<


Untrue, says US

US says Gadhafi troops issued Viagra, raping victims
Allegation suggests troops encouraged to turn to sexual violence, envoys say

By Louis Charbonneau
updated 4/28/2011 9:31:26 PM ET

UNITED NATIONS — The U.S. envoy to the United Nations told the Security Council Thursday that troops loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi were increasingly engaging in sexual violence and some had been issued the impotency drug Viagra, diplomats said.

Several U.N. diplomats who attended a closed-door Security Council meeting on Libya told Reuters that U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice raised the Viagra issue in the context of increasing reports of sexual violence by Gadhafi's troops.

"Rice raised that in the meeting but no one responded," a diplomat said on condition of anonymity. The allegation was first reported by a British newspaper.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42809612/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa#.TqXeG96ImU8


US intel: No evidence of Viagra as weapon in Libya

http://www.msnbc .msn.com/id/42824884/ns/world_news-mide...

UN Ambassador Rice reportedly had said drug was being used in systematic rapes
NBC News and news services updated 4/29/2011 1:52:00 PM ET

UNITED NATIONS — There is no evidence that Libyan military forces are being given Viagra and engaging in systematic rape against women in rebel areas, US military and intelligence officials told NBC News on Friday.

Diplomats said Thursday that US Ambassador Susan Rice told a closed-door meeting of officials at the UN that the Libyan military is using rape as a weapon in the war with the rebels and some had been issued the anti- impotency drug. She reportedly offered no evidence to backup the claim.

While rape has been a weapon of choice in many other African conflicts, the US officials say they've seen no such reports out of Libya.


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
The gap between Hillary Rodham Clinton's rhetoric warning of a Rwanda-like slaughter of civilians in Libya and the facts gathered by career intelligence staff is taking on significance as the former secretary of state prepares another bid for the White House and her national security credentials are re-examined. (Associated Press)



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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...
bvar22:

The Untold Story in Libya:

How The West Cooked Up The People's Uprising


http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/08/31/now-that-... ... /

The Global Disaster Capitalists never let a good disaster go to waste.
In the case of Libya, they used their Enforcement Arm (NATO & The US Military) to CREATE a disaster where there was none.

” For all his dictatorial megalomania, Gaddafi is a committed pan-African - a fierce defender of African unity. Libya was not in debt to international bankers. It did not borrow cash from the International Monetary Fund for any "structural adjustment". It used oil money for social services - including the Great Man Made River project, and investment/aid to sub-Saharan countries. Its independent central bank was not manipulated by the Western financial system. All in all a very bad example for the developing world.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/M...

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Libya: Oil, Banks, Water, the United Nations, and America’s Holy Crusade by Felicity Arbuthnot

Posted on April 5, 2011 by dandelionsalad

.."The country was commended: “for the progress made in the achievement of the Millennium Development Goals, namely universal primary education (and) firm commitment (to) health care.” There was “praise” for “cooperation with international organizations in combating human trafficking and corruption ..” and for cooperation with “the International Organization for Migration.”

“Progress in enjoyment of economic and social rights, including in the areas of education, health care, poverty reduction and social welfare” with “measures taken to promote transparency”, were also cited. Malaysia: “Commended the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for being party to a significant number of international and regional human rights instruments.” Promotion: “of the rights of persons with disabilities” and praise for “measures taken with regard to low income families”, were cited...

.."So how does the all tie together? Libya, in March being praised by the Majority of the UN., for human rights progress across the board, to being the latest, bombarded international pariah? A nation’s destruction enshrined in a UN., Resolution?
The answer lies in part with the Geneva based UN Watch.(vii) UN Watch is : “a non-governmental organization whose mandate is to monitor the performance of the United Nations.” With Consultative Status to the UN Economic and Social Council, with ties to the UN Department of Public Information, “UN Watch is affiliated with the American Jewish Committee.” (AJC.)"

http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2011/0... /

Interesting ..... the involvement in HR Watch of persons whose core values include securing energy resources.

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Colonel Muammar Gaddafi died after being stabbed with a bayonet in the anus and not in a firefight as originally claimed by Libyan authorities, according to a report on the Libyan dictator's last hours.

Two Nato missiles forced the group to leave the cars and escape on foot, seeking shelter in a drainage ditch. A bodyguard hurled grenades at approaching militiamen but one grenade "hit the concrete wall and bounced back to fall between Muammar Gaddafi and Abu Bakr Younis", Younis junior said.

"The shrapnel hit my father and he fell down to the ground. Muammar Gaddafi was also injured by the grenade, on the left side of his head," he said.

New York-based Human Rights Watch said Gaddafi was already bleeding from head wounds caused by blast shrapnel as he tried to flee Sirte, his hometown.

The charity obtained unedited mobile footage that showed militia fighters abusing Gaddafi as they took him into custody in October 2011.

"As he was being led on to the main road, a militiaman stabbed him in his anus with what appears to have been a bayonet, causing another rapidly bleeding wound," the report said.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaddafi-killed-bayonet-stab-anus-libya-395224



The Grand finale - sodomized with a bayonet, beaten, tortured and murdered in the street - "We came, we saw ....... he died, lol".



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The campaign in Libya began with an innocent sounding UN Security Council Resolution calling for the protection of civilians. Both China and Russia abstained rather than voting to veto the resolution. Then they realized they had been tricked. In her book, Clinton describes how Russia “chafed as the NATO-led mission to protect civilians accelerated the fall of Qaddafi”. In reality the NATO led mission “to protect civilians” resulted in vastly more civilian deaths than had occurred before it began.

Horace Campbell and Maximilian Forte have written two solid accounts describing the reality versus myths of regime change in Libya. Clinton’s characterization of “accelerating” the fall of Qaddafi is a cynical understatement, like her self congratulatory comment that “we came, we saw, he died” after rebels killed Qaddafi on the street. Many of the refugees drowning in the Mediterannean Sea or reaching the shores of Italy today are a direct consequence of that operation. Yet who has been held to account?


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/09/the-wicked-war-on-syria/

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Britain, Libya and the Mediterranean - The Creation of a Humanitarian Emergency

by Dan Glazebrook / May 1st, 2015

Last week’s drownings in the Mediterranean were the foreseeable, and indeed deliberate, a result of the anti-human policies of strategic violence by a dying neo-colonial empire. They were the consequence, firstly, of a series of wars of aggression that have made life intolerable across vast swathes of Africa and West Asia, and, secondly, of the fateful EU decision last November to end Italy’s search-and-rescue programme, Mare Nostrum. This much has been admitted by politicians and commentators from across the entire British political establishment, from Nigel Farage and the Daily Telegraph to David Cameron and Ed Miliband. Whilst these admissions have often been tempered with caveats, denials, distortions and half-truths, the hideous reality behind them is increasingly impossible to deny.

NATO’s war of aggression against Libya in 2011 turned the country over to racist death squads, with hundreds of sub-Saharan migrant workers and black Libyans beaten and burnt to death by the ‘revolutionaries’ and tens of thousands illegally detained and tortured by the militias. Tawergha, the only black African town on the Mediterranean, and formerly home to around 30,000 people, is now a ghost town after NATO’s shock troops – militias with names like the ‘Brigades for the purging of black skins’ – ‘ethnically cleansed’ the region. Last week’s butchering of 30 Ethiopian workers by ISIS is but the latest chapter in the anti-African pogroms that have characterised the Libyan insurgency from the very start. This is the reality of NATO’s ‘Libyan revolution’ (led by AbdulHakim BelHaj, now leader of ISIS in Libya) and it is precisely this from which black Africans in Libya are now fleeing. As Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi put it, “a person has to risk his life because he needs to escape from a situation where they are chopping off the heads of those near him”.

And this head-chopping has not been restricted to Libya’s borders. NATO’s war has boosted head-choppers across the entire region, from Tunisia and Algeria to Mali, Nigeria and Cameroon. Before 2011, Boko Haram barely existed. Today, thanks to NATO opening up Libya’s arsenals to them and their friends, they are killing hundreds every week, often burning them alive in churches and mosques. As one Nigerian told a reporter last week, “We prefer to die trying (to migrate) than stay back there and die….Stay at home and get shot dead or maybe burnt to death; I just prefer to die while trying or survive.”

Yet the Libyan war itself is only the latest in a long series of acts of aggression launched by the British state and its allies, all of which continue to have disastrous consequences across the entire Middle East and North Africa region. A look at the list of where the migrants come from makes this devastatingly clear. The majority of the world’s refugees come from one of three countries: Afghanistan, Somalia and Syria. What all have in common is that they have all been subject to vicious terror campaigns by Britain, the USA and their allies: whether directly, as in Afghanistan; through allied states, as with the US-backed Ethiopian invasion of Somalia in 2006 (which toppled the first stable government the country had had in decades); or through the provision of cash, weapons and diplomatic cover to sectarian death squads, as in the case of Syria. Yemen is the latest additional source of refugees, with the Saudi bombing campaign bringing new arrivals to almost 10,000 per week.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/05/britain-libya-and-the-mediterranean/

Behind Every Refugee Stands an Arms Trader

http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/04/behind-every-refugee-stands-an-arms-trader/

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Trapped in Libya: the flotsam of the West’s wars

By Vijay Prashad
Source: al-Araby
May 14, 2015

Next week, the EU will launch work on its plan to tackle the Mediterranean migrant crisis. The EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini has asked the UN for help to dismantle the smuggling networks.

European ambassadors have drafted a UN resolution, under chapter VII (which allows use of force), to tackle the crisis. For them the military option is the brightest light. As Mogherini said, the EU wants the authority to “use all necessary means to seize and dispose of the [smugglers’] vessels.

“Thus far in 2015, over 60,000 people have tried to cross from Libya to Europe. Of them, close to two thousand have died – a death toll 20 times higher than in 2014,” it continues.


Since 2011, Libya has been ripped apart, its social fabric torn asunder and its state structure largely absent. Nato’s bombardment precipitously destroyed the state and handed over the country to warring militias.

The threat to the refugees is a direct outcome of UN Security Council Resolution 1973, ironically under the Responsibility to Protect (R2P) banner. A new UNSC resolution is not going to be about the protection of the refugees, but to use force to destroy their lifeline. R2P has been ground under by the West’s behavior in Libya.


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/trapped-in-libya-the-flotsam-of-the-wests-wars/


On Monday, a New York Times story demonstrated more specifically why Clinton's interactions with Blumenthal may have been a bad idea. Blumenthal, the Times reports via solid sources, was advising the Secretary of State both before and after former Libyan autocrat Muammar Qaddafi's death while also advising a group of private individuals who hoped to make money by obtaining reconstruction-type contracts in a post-Qaddafi Libya.

Much of the Libya intelligence that Mr. Blumenthal passed on to Mrs. Clinton appears to have come from a group of business associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the Libyan transitional government. The venture, which was ultimately unsuccessful, involved other Clinton friends, a private military contractor and one former C.I.A. spy seeking to get in on the ground floor of the new Libyan economy ...


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/05/18/hillary_clinton_sidney_blumenthal_libya_unofficial_adviser_represented_business.html


The detritus of regime change in Libya

By Vijay Prashad
Source: al-Araby
November 1, 2015

.......In Iraq, parts of the deposed army and some Baath Party members linked up with al-Qaeda in Iraq, and then later the Islamic State of Iraq. It was these motivated and trained men that formed the backbone of the IS advance on Fallujah and Ramadi in 2014.

Much the same story is being repeated with the emergence of IS in Libya. Adversaries of Gaddafi in the 1990s took refuge in the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group; one of whose strongholds was the town of Derna.

These fighters fled the country to join the Jihad International in Afghanistan, Chechnya, Iraq, Yemen and Syria.

It had become a familiar matter to meet an al-Libi in the redoubts of the jihadis. Studies show that Libya provided per capita the highest number of jihadis to this global campaign.


The lesson of Iraq was not learned. It was repeated in Libya. Both countries still hang by a thread. Their people suffer painfully. They have been sacrificed to a theory that is arrogant and erroneous. It deserves a place only in the dustbin of history.


Full article: https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/the-detritus-of-regime-change-in-libya/


Deadliest Terror in the World: The West’s Latest Gift to Africa


by Dan Glazebrook / November 30th, 2015

Nigeria’s Boko Haram are now officially the deadliest terror group in the world. That they have reached this position is a direct consequence of Cameron and Co’s war on Libya – and one that was perhaps not entirely unintended.

In 2009, the year they took up arms, Boko Haram had nothing like the capacity to mount such operations, and their equipment remained primitive; but by 2011, that had begun to change. As Peter Weber noted in The Week, their weapons “shifted from relatively cheap AK-47s in the early days of its post-2009 embrace of violence to desert-ready combat vehicles and anti-aircraft/ anti-tank guns”. This dramatic turnaround in the group’s access to materiel was the direct result of NATO’s war on Libya. A UN report published in early 2012 warned that “large quantities of weapons and ammunition from Libyan stockpiles were smuggled into the Sahel region”, including “rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns with anti-aircraft visors, automatic rifles, ammunition, grenades, explosives (Semtex), and light anti-aircraft artillery (light caliber bi-tubes) mounted on vehicles”, and probably also more advanced weapons such as surface-to-air missiles and MANPADS (man-portable air-defence systems). NATO had effectively turned over the entire armoury of an advanced industrial state to the region’s most sectarian militias: groups such as the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and Boko Haram.

The earliest casualty of NATO’s war outside Libya was Mali. Taureg fighters who had worked in Gaddafi’s security forces fled Libya soon after Gaddafi’s government was overthrown, and mounted an insurgency in Northern Mali. They, in turn, were overthrown, however, by Al Qaeda’s regional affiliates – flush with Libyan weaponry – who then turned Northern Mali into another base from which to train and launch attacks. Boko Haram was a key beneficiary. As Brendan O’ Neill wrote in an excellent 2014 article worth quoting at length:

Boko Haram benefited enormously from the vacuum created in once-peaceful northern Mali following the West’s ousting of Gaddafi. In two ways: first, it honed its guerrilla skills by fighting alongside more practised Islamists in Mali, such as AQIM; and second, it accumulated some of the estimated 15,000 pieces of Libyan military hardware and weaponry that leaked across the country’s borders following the sweeping aside of Gaddafi. In April 2012, Agence France France Presse reported that ‘dozens of Boko Haram fighters’ were assisting AQIM and others in northern Mali. This had a devastating knock-on effect in Nigeria. As the Washington Post reported in early 2013, ‘The Islamist insurgency in northern Nigeria has entered a more violent phase as militants return to the fight with sophisticated weaponry and tactics learned on the battlefields of nearby Mali’. A Nigerian analyst said ‘Boko Haram’s level of audacity was high [in late 2012]’, immediately following the movement of some of its militants to the Mali region.


That NATO’s Libya war would have such consequences was both thoroughly predictable, and widely predicted. As early as June 2011, African Union Chairman Jean Ping warned NATO that “Africa’s concern is that weapons that are delivered to one side or another…are already in the desert and will arm terrorists and fuel trafficking”. And both Mali and Algeria strongly opposed NATO’s destruction of Libya precisely because of the massive destabilisation it would bring to the region. They argued, wrote O’Neill, “that such a violent upheaval in a region like north Africa could have potentially catastrophic consequences. The fallout from the bombing is ‘a real source of concern’, said the rulers of Mali in October 2011. In fact, as the BBC reported, they had been arguing since ‘the start of the conflict in Libya’ – that is, since the civil conflict between Benghazi-based militants and Gaddafi began – that ‘the fall of Gaddafi would have a destabilising effect in the region’.” In an op-ed following the collapse of Northern Mali, a former Chief of Staff of UK land forces, Major-General Jonathan Shaw, wrote that Colonel Gaddafi was a “lynchpin” of the “informal Sahel security plan”, whose removal therefore led to a foreseeable collapse of security across the entire region. The rise of Boko Haram has been but one result – and not without strategic benefits for the West.


Full article: http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/deadliest-terror-in-the-world-the-wests-latest-gift-to-africa/


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/the-problem-with-hillarys-friends/393635/

“Much of the Libya intelligence that Mr. Blumenthal passed on to Mrs. Clinton appears to have come from a group of business associates he was advising as they sought to win contracts from the Libyan transitional government,” a later Times report noted. “The venture, which was ultimately unsuccessful, involved other Clinton friends, a private military contractor and one former C.I.A. spy seeking to get in on the ground floor of the new Libyan economy.”

The memos covered everything from warnings about possible terrorist attacks and the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood within Libya to the potential training of Libyan rebels and the hiring of new economic advisers by the Libyan premier. As the National Journal reports, the House Benghazi Committee is already seeking Blumenthal’s testimony.




WE CAME, WE SAW, HE DIED’ 10.20.15 6:00 PM ET

Hillary’s Libya Post-War Plan Was ‘Play It by Ear,’ Gates Says

She still defends the invasion as ‘smart power at its best.’ But war backers like Clinton had no plan for securing the country, says ex-Pentagon chief Bob Gates.

President Obama, however, didn’t see things quite that way. He was reportedly reluctant about the operation—until Clinton, Rice, and Power swayed him, over Gates’s objections. “Clinton won the bureaucratic battle to use DOD [Department of Defense] resources to achieve what’s essentially the State Department’s objective,” Steve Clemons, then an analyst with the administration-friendly New America Foundation, told Foreign Policy at the time.


And when Obama finally agreed to the operation, he stressed “Operation Odyssey Dawn” would be a limited effort to protect civilians from a possible genocide by the Libyan government. Removing Gaddafi was the last thing he wanted to do.


During revolutionary-era Libya, no one in the upper ranks of the U.S. government seriously considered whether the newly created Transitional National Council, a rival government in rebel-held areas like Benghazi, could govern the oil-rich state. Nor did Clinton or top leaders ask about unintended consequences of an air campaign, especially if it successfully ended Gaddafi’s 42-year rule, according to the senior defense official who was part of the conversation at the time. And as the country was falling apart, it seems no one in the higher reaches of Clinton’s department took note. If they did, they did not take action.

As secretary of state, it was Clinton’s job to ask questions about the state of Libya, both before the intervention and after. She was secretary when the intervention began—and when the U.S. presence in Benghazi ended with a deadly attack. And while she held talks in the early months after Gaddafi’s death, Libya became largely a public afterthought. In the email caches released so far from her personal account, former adviser Sidney Blumenthal repeatedly kept Libya before Clinton, sharing his views of the situation, at the time contradicting the diplomats working for Clinton. Blumenthal, a longtime adviser to both Clinton and President Clinton, was not an expert on the region.


And yet, the day after the attack in Benghazi, Blumenthal drafted an email to Clinton that read like a State Department cable. He said his sources were those that had “direct access to the Libyan Transitional National Council, as well as the highest European Governments, and Western Intelligence and security services.” And those sources said the attack was the result of a protest “inspired by what many devout Libyans viewed as a sacrilegious internet video on the prophet Mohammed originating in America.” It’s a narrative that was quickly disproven.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/20/hillary-s-libya-post-war-plan-was-play-it-by-ear-gates-says.html

Hillary's record as Secretary of State is among the most militaristic, and disastrous, of modern US history. Some experience. Hilary was a staunch defender of the military-industrial-intelligence complex at every turn, helping to spread the Iraq mayhem over a swath of violence that now stretches from Mali to Afghanistan. Two disasters loom largest: Libya and Syria.

Hillary has been much attacked for the deaths of US diplomats in Benghazi, but her tireless promotion of the overthrow Muammar Qaddafi by NATO bombing is the far graver disaster. Hillary strongly promoted NATO-led regime change in Libya, not only in violation of international law but counter to the most basic good judgment. After the NATO bombing, Libya descended into civil war while the paramilitaries and unsecured arms stashes in Libya quickly spread west across the African Sahel and east to Syria. The Libyan disaster has spawned war in Mali, fed weapons to Boko Haram in Nigeria, and fueled ISIS in Syria and Iraq. In the meantime, Hillary found it hilarious to declare of Qaddafi: "We came, we saw, he died."

Perhaps the crowning disaster of this long list of disasters has been Hillary's relentless promotion of CIA-led regime change in Syria. Once again Hillary bought into the CIA propaganda that regime change to remove Bashir al-Assad would be quick, costless, and surely successful. In August 2011, Hillary led the US into disaster with her declaration Assad must "get out of the way," backed by secret CIA operations.


http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/02/05/hillary-candidate-war-machine

Just as much a sham as Iraq, with the exact same results. And on ........ to Syria.
Kick (nt) bigwillq Mar 2016 #1
We're kicking this one all the way to Philly. GoldenThunder Apr 2016 #309
It should go to the convention, in both major parties bigwillq Apr 2016 #310
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #2
I guess we didn't have a President or Congress then? She made the decisions all by herself. nt Jitter65 Apr 2016 #203
Hillary was a leading proponent for intervening in Libya's Civil War, she persuaded Obama Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #207
"To my way of thinking there was something unPresidential with that kind of reaction....." pablo_marmol Apr 2016 #253
I have been wondering why we haven't had more discussions on this Samantha Apr 2016 #262
she took full credit in her emails amborin Apr 2016 #278
K&R. Warmongering is evil, killing the earth but making a whole lot of rich people wealthier. appalachiablue Apr 2016 #283
Republican foreign policy will do that LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #284
Honduras panader0 Mar 2016 #3
Haiti. Iraq. Syria. stillwaiting Mar 2016 #66
You can add Ukraine AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #120
Kissinger and Kagan are doing far more than endorsing Clinton. Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #229
scary amborin Apr 2016 #266
Is that the 2-fer they talk about when mentioning Hillary? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #78
Yes, one of the emails is about this I think. n/t 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #4
She bragged about it herself on TV Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #5
Wow. Classy as always as her supporters like to say about us. 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #6
What? polly7 Mar 2016 #8
No I think u misunderstood 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #24
Oh, I'm sorry. polly7 Mar 2016 #27
Nah, I'm not clear. My mind gets ahead of my texting 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #31
Nope, it was me. polly7 Mar 2016 #32
polly and pooped, I like both of your posts. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #80
:) polly7 Mar 2016 #92
Me too! peacebird Mar 2016 #112
You guys are cute. :) polly7 Mar 2016 #149
Lol thanks 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #142
I actually found that video more disgusting nichomachus Mar 2016 #37
If it had been Bush talking about Saddam that way, EVERY DUer would be disgusted by it n/t arcane1 Mar 2016 #81
LOL Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #139
horrifying amborin Apr 2016 #260
Do you hear and see that sadistic tape during which ladjf Mar 2016 #93
.... CentralMass Mar 2016 #117
Mirthful laughter and delighted hand clapping. bjo59 Apr 2016 #201
Sick. DiehardLiberal Apr 2016 #225
A bayonet? I read shortly after it happened it was a gun and the person holding it pulled Samantha Apr 2016 #273
First time I saw it I thought "psychopath". HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #301
I missed Hillary not being on stage at last night’s debate…. andrewv1 Mar 2016 #7
Yes she has the most experience 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #25
You know I just opened this topic again & I thought one of the replies was a Dick Cheney quote... andrewv1 Mar 2016 #53
It's also kinda scary. Duval Mar 2016 #59
And she's got more balls than all of them pdsimdars Mar 2016 #82
Smarmy, the booger eating puke...AKA Ted Cruz. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2016 #128
True....In the newest CNN Poll he beats Hillary barely but does win....Bernie? andrewv1 Mar 2016 #133
I saw some polls like that too. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #190
Good point. Her militarist credentials are second to none. Vattel Mar 2016 #195
She's a friggin' geopoitical genius. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2016 #9
It is because her motivation is based upon an alternative agenda than the one presented. FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #20
Well, she learned from the master, war criminal Kissinger. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #85
I'll post this again. randome Mar 2016 #10
You spelled Benghazi wrong. You've got an extra 'n' in there: Benghanzi Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #11
Thanks! The article wasn't in text I could copy and paste so I had to transcribe it myself. randome Mar 2016 #14
no prob Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #318
And 'I'll post this again'. polly7 Mar 2016 #13
So France, Britain and the Arab League were co-conspirators for PNAC? randome Mar 2016 #16
LMFAO. seriously. You must think people here are very naive and stupid. polly7 Mar 2016 #23
No, not really. The invasion of Iraq helped create them. randome Mar 2016 #33
What wars were taking place in the Mideast directly before the invasion of Iraq??? polly7 Mar 2016 #35
Afghanistan? Home base to the Taliban? randome Mar 2016 #36
Afghanistan was at war with someone? Who?? nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #38
I'm not sure what you mean about what wars were taking place in the Mideast before Iraq. randome Mar 2016 #43
That's a lie. Qaddafi was not threatening a bloodbath. Pure, filthy propaganda. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #47
Well, that's what the NYT article says. randome Mar 2016 #51
Why did Bush have a 'coalition of the willing' to destroy Iraq? Come on, you can do it .... nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #52
Whatever you think of Clinton, I don't see how you can view her as equivalent to Bush, Jr. randome Mar 2016 #57
Are you claiming she was unaware of PNAC's agenda or the '7 countries in 5 years' plan polly7 Mar 2016 #62
Being aware of PNAC and trying to stop a bloodbath in Libya can be two entirely different things. randome Mar 2016 #74
I don't give anyone a fucking benefit of a doubt when they're being advised by a PNAC polly7 Mar 2016 #84
You are trying to have a conversation Aerows Mar 2016 #182
What did we gain from Libya other than saving some lives? randome Mar 2016 #67
Because their leaders are rich off of NeoLiberalism. newthinking Mar 2016 #55
But Qaddafi truly WAS fighting the Arab Spring uprising and threatened a bloodbath. randome Mar 2016 #61
Saved some lives??? polly7 Mar 2016 #70
Did you think neocons were just here in THIS country? Lol, I think you're just kidding. The Western sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #162
Qaddafi was a friend of Tony Blair Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #164
You said the ME was such a mess before Iraq. polly7 Mar 2016 #48
We definitely made things worse by invading a country that didn't threaten us. randome Mar 2016 #56
Example of what I was saying before, polly7 Aerows Mar 2016 #183
from your long informative post questionseverything Mar 2016 #72
Exactly. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #77
'Always' boots in Afghanistan. polly7 Mar 2016 #147
BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY.. pangaia Mar 2016 #96
It's sad to think that can actually be how some people think of these things Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #172
Yes it is sad. And human beings pay the price. pangaia Mar 2016 #173
Are you SERIOUS? The founder of PNAC was an adviser to Hillary Clinton CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #68
Thank you! nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #91
DISASTER CAPITALISM pangaia Mar 2016 #100
Please, Hillary, for the good of mankind, mia Mar 2016 #193
Why? Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #223
OMG! "The only person who can stop this is Bernie Sanders" Jitter65 Apr 2016 #204
Bernie Sanders is not a friend of Netanyahoo. But Clinton is. Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #230
On The Contrary, PNAC Founders Appointed by Clinton to High Positions in Her State Department Justina For Justice Mar 2016 #101
Did they die? AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #121
Impressive post 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #28
You're welcome. polly7 Mar 2016 #30
What freaks me out is people who think Qadaffi, Hussein, Assad, the Shah, the Taliban... yallerdawg Mar 2016 #83
Republicans were probably worse Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #177
Thank you polly7 Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #41
I agree with you completely. Economic independence and empowering polly7 Mar 2016 #44
Certainly she is. Especially given that she brought Victoria Nuland in as Assistant Secretary of newthinking Mar 2016 #58
+1,000,000. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #64
Excellent post. "PAX Americana" will continue if HRC has the capability newthinking Mar 2016 #50
Excellent compilation of facts and documentation. bvar22 Mar 2016 #98
+ a whole bunch excellent post thx nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #99
Thanks so much, very interesting! I have to leave but will bookmark this for later. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #109
polly7, I want to thank for educating me on Libya. Your info is invaluable! Peace Patriot Apr 2016 #232
Oh, you're so welcome, Peace Patriot. polly7 Apr 2016 #236
HRC persuaded Obama. And ignored opportunities to de-escalate. thesquanderer Mar 2016 #75
and deliberately obstructed the peace process amborin Apr 2016 #295
And as all who knew about it say . . . she talked him into it. It was HER push. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #88
yes, and she took credit in her emails amborin Apr 2016 #269
I bet Obama regrets having Clinton as SOS. Vattel Mar 2016 #12
Yeah for real. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #21
I know I do. 2pooped2pop Mar 2016 #29
Why? Because she "tricked" him into these things? LOL Get real. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #124
Did I say that she tricked him? Vattel Mar 2016 #125
please do some reading and learn about HRC's leading role, and she took full credit in her emails amborin Apr 2016 #259
Those troubled by "horrible atrocities" apparently never visited this paradise when Ghadaffi ran it. brooklynite Mar 2016 #15
That sounds exactly like people who defend the Iraq invasion on the basis that Saddam was awful Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #17
And would have shrugged their shoulders, no doubt, when he delivered the promised 'bloodbath'. randome Mar 2016 #18
DU'er 'mainer' was in Libya traveling when Qaddafi ran it. polly7 Mar 2016 #22
+1,000 nichomachus Mar 2016 #42
Qaddafi was a bad guy but the USA supports bad guys all over the world as long as they serve power Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #45
I knew about the bank thing but NOT about Libya's water supply. pangaia Mar 2016 #106
You're welcome, mine are just a small amount I'd kept in my journal. There were many, many great polly7 Mar 2016 #114
Unbelievable.. well Not so much. pangaia Mar 2016 #126
Thanks for the mention. Yes, I was in Libya mainer Apr 2016 #210
Hi mainer polly7 Apr 2016 #217
And how many times did you visit it? nichomachus Mar 2016 #40
Regime change and flooding weaponry does not do the people of those countries any favors newthinking Mar 2016 #65
I did. I was in Libya in 2006. mainer Apr 2016 #209
So when are we invading North Korea? LondonReign2 Apr 2016 #288
yes, but Syria, too! It was her idea to implement regime amborin Mar 2016 #19
It's true, she pushed for regime change in Syria and still is doing it. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #26
wiki leaks has an email wherein the state dept doesn't want Syrians to blame regime change amborin Mar 2016 #34
Qaddafi's 2nd son, Saif-al-Islam, was in line to succeed him. Saif is Western-educated, well-spoken virgista Mar 2016 #39
Funny; that's what people said about Bashir Assad... brooklynite Apr 2016 #249
Kickrec kristopher Mar 2016 #46
Senator Clinton is not leadership material Agony Mar 2016 #49
She was planning to run for president the whole time she was Sec of State. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #54
If you are an enemy of Israel, Hillary will bomb and destroy your country / FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #60
Bizarro World Hillary bring love and kindness to Libya! Karmadillo Mar 2016 #63
Judgement, judgement, judgement pdsimdars Mar 2016 #69
I really think it's too generous to chalk it up to bad judgement Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #180
especially given the Libya banking system issue amborin Apr 2016 #270
So much of this I didn't know. Duval Mar 2016 #71
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Mar 2016 #73
Hillary supporters keep posting lies and distortions of Bernie's history and positions pdsimdars Mar 2016 #76
Our country's foreign policies are the President's policies. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #79
she talked him into it Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #90
I don't think of our President in such weak terms. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #94
Lies and propaganda. Just as with Iraq. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #95
Whatevs. It's in the emails. She's taken credit for it. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #97
The buck stops at the top. We Democrats do not refer to the Iraq War as "Powell's War". Trust Buster Mar 2016 #103
We would if he bragged about starting it then ran for president Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #104
please read up, this is inaccurate; Amnesty In'l contradicts this; HRC pressured Obama to bomb & too amborin Apr 2016 #275
Thanks for posting this. K&R eom Purveyor Mar 2016 #86
I think the main thing she was concerned with is: Did it increase arms sales in the region? LiberalArkie Mar 2016 #87
Oh, absolutely. Arms being used to commit war crimes all over the region. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #89
probably a big factor amborin Apr 2016 #297
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #102
Let's not get carried away. It wasn't that great and was still a dictatorship Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #111
Thank you! polly7 Mar 2016 #119
How would it have turned out without intervention? JohnnyRingo Mar 2016 #105
How would WHAT have turned out? nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #107
The current situation in Libya. JohnnyRingo Mar 2016 #113
There was no 'situation' in Libya at the time, until the west created one. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #115
The situation in Libya has always been fluid. JohnnyRingo Mar 2016 #118
How is the situation in the U.S.? polly7 Mar 2016 #123
We don't have to defend Qaddafi to oppose reckless intervention Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #129
I am defending what he did for his people and tried to do for all of those in Africa. polly7 Mar 2016 #132
OK I honestly don't know much about that, but my main point on that is that Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #134
The info I am describing was stated in many news sources at the time. polly7 Mar 2016 #135
Nice side step JohnnyRingo Mar 2016 #140
Nice running away from a perfectly legitimate question. polly7 Mar 2016 #141
Hillary Clinton reviews Henry Kissinger’s ‘World Order’ nationalize the fed Mar 2016 #143
You're the one with the conspiracy theories. Everything about all this was well-known years ago. polly7 Mar 2016 #153
Didn't read it. JohnnyRingo Mar 2016 #157
Good for you. polly7 Mar 2016 #158
Yeah, the snippets of that, that the major news organizations offered, were eye opening at the time Babel_17 Mar 2016 #176
I just brought it here from leveymg's post. polly7 Mar 2016 #178
Hillary Clinton will still win the Democratic nomination and be elected President. George II Mar 2016 #108
So, let's understand this...A Candidate that has an almost 60% unfavorable rating with the public... andrewv1 Mar 2016 #130
All that "unfavorable" BS and yet she's still 700+ delegates ahead with only about 600.... George II Apr 2016 #212
You do know the unfavorable ratings are from all Americans? tabasco Apr 2016 #285
When one goes into the voting booth, the choice is the two candidates by name/party, not.... George II Apr 2016 #287
Chanting "scoreboard" does not answer the question why her negatives are so high. tabasco Apr 2016 #289
No one is chanting "scoreboard", in fact no one is even chanting and no one mentioned "scoreboard" George II Apr 2016 #290
You are being purposefully obtuse tabasco Apr 2016 #292
IMO,it is clear that "The Dumbing Down of America" has already happened. ladjf Apr 2016 #211
K & R! SoapBox Mar 2016 #110
No reason to trust her, and plenty of reasons not to trust her. SammyWinstonJack Mar 2016 #131
Ouch. She could retire and spend time with the grand kids. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #138
Iraq. Honduras. Syria. Haiti. zentrum Mar 2016 #116
Foreign policy was supposed to be her strength Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #127
Kick (nt) bigwillq Mar 2016 #122
K&R Paka Mar 2016 #136
Blame it on the Libyans. Never admit bad judgment. nt thereismore Mar 2016 #137
Maybe they need to learn to accept the gift of freedom Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #144
I can't even... obtuse comes to mind. thereismore Mar 2016 #148
The truth of the matter is ... salinsky Mar 2016 #145
No, that is 'not' the truth of the matter. Libya was doing fine - too fine. ;) polly7 Mar 2016 #146
And, then there was a civil war ... salinsky Mar 2016 #154
Yes, those western funded and trained rebels .... things did get bad after that. nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #155
''We came. We saw. He died.'' Octafish Mar 2016 #150
Reminds me a lot of this one: polly7 Mar 2016 #151
That suit is shinier than I was expecting Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #160
Mosty qualified presidential candidate? Nope. Not by my standards. eom Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #152
Most disqualified is more like it Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #156
Be fair: Ted Cruz is still running... Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #165
What happened to all the Libya cheerleaders here who attacked those of us who were sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #159
Beats me Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #161
They told us we were trying to deny the Libyan people the wonderful future of freeeeeedom sabrina 1 Mar 2016 #163
"to know if they feel GUILTY for what has been done" Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #199
She is a walking, talking, foreign policy disaster. But shhhhh... let's leave that to the Skwmom Mar 2016 #166
And that's why her campaign has been so negative too Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #168
scary; her judgement is so flawed and she is so reckless; millions died amborin May 2016 #314
emails show she took full credit; she ignored advice of Biden & Gates not to bomb Libya; amborin Mar 2016 #167
Hillary was trying to beef up her presidential resume with a few bombings Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #169
+1,000,000 DiehardLiberal Apr 2016 #226
Except these were not Hillary's policies alone. BUT Jitter65 Mar 2016 #170
Trump and Hillary I guess attended their conference this year Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #191
And if Hillary is elected President, we can look forward John Poet Mar 2016 #171
She's got a lot of experience in that area. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #174
I'm Sure Henry The K Approves Wholeheartedly... AzDar Mar 2016 #175
Probably so. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #179
And Khadafi was better? Tarc Mar 2016 #181
In this case it turned out to be a huge disaster. A real human tragedy of epic proportions. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #184
It already was a disaster Tarc Mar 2016 #185
It seems like your understanding of this issue is incredibly shallow. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #186
I'll let the pictures speak for themselves Tarc Mar 2016 #187
The "situation" in Libya prior to Gaddafi's fall: UK Guardian mainer Apr 2016 #214
The CIA and our various allies have done worse, before and since. nt killbotfactory Apr 2016 #208
Better than the humanitarian disaster that is now Libya? mainer Apr 2016 #216
Any nation is better off when their terrorist-funding leader is taken out Tarc Apr 2016 #218
Tell that to the thousands of dead since Hillary acted mainer Apr 2016 #219
Perhaps you can go pitch your Khadaffi Pity Party to the relatives of the Pan Am 103 bombing Tarc Apr 2016 #220
Ick. nt. polly7 Apr 2016 #228
The pity party should be for the mess that is now Libya mainer Apr 2016 #234
Hip hip horray indeed Tarc Apr 2016 #239
And those were rebels who'd already bombed police stations polly7 Apr 2016 #227
Posthumous progressive love for the dictator Ghaddafi makes me sick. CalvinballPro Mar 2016 #188
Hillary made the situation much much worse. The USA can't go around the world overthrowing dictators Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #189
UK Guardian's article about Libya's investment potential mainer Apr 2016 #215
k&r Electric Monk Mar 2016 #192
She has criticized Obama for his "Don't do stupid shit" policy Vattel Mar 2016 #194
Naming Hillary as SoS may have been his greatest error Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #197
She is itching for regime change in Syria, starting with a no fly zone to bait them into action. AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #196
She has been pushing for that the whole time. It's been a disaster. Cheese Sandwich Mar 2016 #198
are you saying it like its a bad thing? reddread Apr 2016 #200
Well, the destruction wrought by the Clintons and their terrible policies didn't stop at our shores. Skwmom Apr 2016 #202
Highly recommended azmom Apr 2016 #205
kicking amborin Apr 2016 #206
Libya 2006. Photos mainer Apr 2016 #213
Whoa ... I missed this. polly7 Apr 2016 #241
How long until she admits to it being another "mistake" in her "foreign policy" experience resume? Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #221
Ridiculous Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #222
Obama did not want to touch LIbya; HRC pressured Obama, against advice of Gates, Biden, etc. amborin Apr 2016 #224
Why the hell would her shitty choices be any different of she were POTUS? Bonobo Apr 2016 #231
Riddle me this: DetlefK Apr 2016 #233
Riddle ME this. Yet another illegal 'regime-change of a sovereign nation and its people polly7 Apr 2016 #237
Sooo... You would have been okay with the libyan army killing the rebels? DetlefK Apr 2016 #243
Heh .... polly7 Apr 2016 #244
Which would have meant a massacre, obviously. DetlefK Apr 2016 #245
Those 'rebels' who'd already murdered police, polly7 Apr 2016 #246
It's easy to criticize in retrospect. What would you do if the situation repeats in another country? DetlefK Apr 2016 #247
My motto - don't invent scenarios for the destruction of millions polly7 Apr 2016 #248
Do you realize that your proposal demands silent approval of mass-murder??? DetlefK Apr 2016 #250
Why is it the US always seems to fund mass murdering dictators when they are serving the empire? Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #252
Nice try at deflection. I'll go for it anyway. DetlefK Apr 2016 #258
this is a misrepresentation of the facts amborin Apr 2016 #238
I cannot fail to note that you do not attempt to refute my "misrepresentation". DetlefK Apr 2016 #242
Here's a good place to start: Maedhros Apr 2016 #302
"We came. We saw. He died." (Gleeful laughter) Chilling. mainer Apr 2016 #235
That laugh seems like something a psychopath would do, not a president or secretary of state. Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #251
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #264
kicking amborin Apr 2016 #240
This message was self-deleted by its author rbrnmw Apr 2016 #254
This message was self-deleted by its author Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #255
There is excellent information in this thread. senz Apr 2016 #256
Thanks. Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #261
"Everybody understands Gaddafi is a thug and murderer," Sanders said to Fox News. . . . ucrdem Apr 2016 #257
Hillary encouraged Obama to arm the rebels and take down the Libyan government Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #265
more here: amborin Apr 2016 #267
Thanks Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #298
Condemning Gaddafi is not the same as advocating intervention to overthrow him Fozzledick Apr 2016 #272
that's true Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #317
condemn him, but that's not the same as saying: let's bomb Libya; HRC sold the Algeria regime amborin Apr 2016 #281
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #263
Cheese Sandwich, she's a woman and should get a free pass on the carnage she caused in Libya. Skwmom Apr 2016 #268
kick amborin Apr 2016 #271
HRC has been a foreign policy disaster amborin Apr 2016 #274
Clearly Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #277
But. Wait. What she did is exactly that which makes her "more qualified" 2banon Apr 2016 #276
she's more qualified to keep starting wars and regime change amborin Apr 2016 #279
They keep saying 'most qualified' like we're hiring a manager for our restaurant or something Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #280
Didn't realize that the SOS had such massive powers. I guess Sanders better pick carefully, since anotherproletariat Apr 2016 #282
No but if read those 2 articles from the links in the OP you'll see Hillary was #1 in urging Obama Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #293
Those would be President Obama's policies, then. n/t Orsino Apr 2016 #286
only by a huge stretch; she pressured Obama and went against everyone's advice: Gates, Biden, etc... amborin Apr 2016 #294
...and yet, President Obama was on board. Orsino Apr 2016 #296
he delegated to her, and he was pressured, and acquiesced against his better judgement amborin Apr 2016 #300
Delegation of authority, not responsibility. Orsino Apr 2016 #303
please read up on it, amborin Apr 2016 #304
It will not be possible to say that one of them is "guilty" while the other is not. Orsino Apr 2016 #305
But Hillary led the effort on this, took credit, and gave a mission accomplished speech in Libya Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #306
I'm certainly not exempting her from blame... Orsino Apr 2016 #307
Again, after Iraq it's that unqualified thingy.... ViseGrip Apr 2016 #291
If this doesn't disqualify a person from being president, nothing does. Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #315
I find it amusing that the OP keeps kicking his TWO month-old thread Tarc May 2016 #316
time for a kick amborin Apr 2016 #299
It will get worse if she ever becomes POTUS nt kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #308
reminding everyone of Hillary's "experience" amborin Apr 2016 #311
kicking amborin May 2016 #312
kick amborin May 2016 #313
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