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2016 Postmortem

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H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 01:17 PM Mar 2016

War Children [View all]

“The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.”
-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton


The above-quoted e-mail, advocating for the expansion of US military involvement in the Middle East, should be central to the decision that citizens make in selecting the candidate they support in the presidential primaries. For members of the Democratic Party, it brings into sharp focus the on-going debate between those who support Hillary Clinton’s “experience,” versus those who support Bernie Sanders’s “judgment.” And, without question, this includes highlighting each candidate’s vote to grant George W. Bush and Dick Cheney unlimited war powers.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for an aggressive “Project for the New American Century” foreign policy. PNAC, formed in the 1990s, was/is a neoconservative “think tank” that advocated for the US to “remake” the Middle East in a fashion that brought about the blooming successes the Bush/Cheney administration is famous for.

The e-mail puts to rest any claim that Clinton is not a “neoconservative.” The utter lack of understanding that has led some people to believe that neo-conservatism is a disease that afflicts only republicans has been exposed as nonsense -- for one of the two PNAC founders, Robert Kagan, served as one of SoS Clinton’s top advisers on Middle Eastern policy.

A vote for Bernie is a vote against neoconservative military aggression, and for an attempt to use military force as a last result. Those favoring Bernie recognize that judgment is equally important to experience. And it values human life.

I’m curious how my friends who are supporting Hillary process the information in that e-mail? I remember that they were opposed to the Bush-Cheney brand of necroconservatism. Yet, the Clinton neo-conservatism will result in human beings being just as dead. How do you justify the trade-off in values?

Peace,
H2O Man


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War Children [View all] H2O Man Mar 2016 OP
I wonder how many of my brothers and sisters in arms will be dead because of PNAC mentality. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #1
Thank you. H2O Man Mar 2016 #6
Kicked and highly recommended. Major Hogwash Mar 2016 #2
Thank you. H2O Man Mar 2016 #8
Hillary favors military solutions for foreign policy matters. Anyone voting for her needs to know think Mar 2016 #3
Right. H2O Man Mar 2016 #11
along with that well-known neocon, Barack Obama bigtree Mar 2016 #4
Please edit H2O Man Mar 2016 #5
you called Hillary a neocon for advocating the exact policy of President Obama bigtree Mar 2016 #7
Not true H2O Man Mar 2016 #10
I’m curious how my friends who are supporting Hillary process the information in that e-mail bigtree Mar 2016 #17
Sad. H2O Man Mar 2016 #20
I'm amazed that you would upbraid me for 'honesty' bigtree Mar 2016 #40
I'm not sure why you think people don't know of her supporting the PNAC agenda? polly7 Mar 2016 #34
He knows. H2O Man Mar 2016 #36
Oh, I'm sorry. :( polly7 Mar 2016 #39
It happens. H2O Man Mar 2016 #42
I don't have a 'grudge' at all bigtree Mar 2016 #45
Your challenge fell flat on the floor sans any relationship to Facts. 2banon Mar 2016 #65
blocked bigtree Mar 2016 #66
Thank you. H2O Man Mar 2016 #78
Good post and video... TeeYiYi Mar 2016 #59
Great threads, TeeYiYi! nt. polly7 Mar 2016 #60
Obama has taken a much more cautious and diplomatic approach to the ME tk2kewl Mar 2016 #9
He knows that. H2O Man Mar 2016 #12
+1 kristopher Mar 2016 #43
Hillary loves peace in the same way that foxes love rabbits. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #14
Very good! H2O Man Mar 2016 #15
That interview was long after HRC's email. Wilms Mar 2016 #41
Thank you. H2O Man Mar 2016 #49
Good post, Wilms. polly7 Mar 2016 #55
I wonder if the establishment back then had any idea that jwirr Mar 2016 #13
Right. H2O Man Mar 2016 #16
Yes, if we hadn't had so many drop out of the cause we would jwirr Mar 2016 #19
Exactly right. H2O Man Mar 2016 #25
Yes, I felt that from the moment Occupy started demonstrating jwirr Mar 2016 #47
For years, I had H2O Man Mar 2016 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author jwirr Mar 2016 #47
In it for fun, or to keep from personally being affected... malthaussen Mar 2016 #68
Excellent description of the problems. I lived in Iowa in a jwirr Mar 2016 #77
"Hillary's experience" vs "Bernie's judgement" is an excellent way to frame this primary contest. Scuba Mar 2016 #18
Outstanding! H2O Man Mar 2016 #22
A necessary evil in DEFENSE of the United States Constitution. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #24
In the last decade, H2O Man Mar 2016 #27
There will be. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #33
I agree 100% H2O Man Mar 2016 #35
See, this is why Smedley Butler should be required reading in high school. malthaussen Mar 2016 #69
Experience and Judgement are the exact two words I come up with pdsimdars Mar 2016 #37
Exactly. H2O Man Mar 2016 #38
Most excellent OP sir. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #21
Thank you, Sir. H2O Man Mar 2016 #23
Thank you G_j Mar 2016 #26
Thanks, Friend! H2O Man Mar 2016 #29
my counciling G_j Mar 2016 #56
That may be true... malthaussen Mar 2016 #71
Maybe they will but many just associate policy with party mmonk Mar 2016 #28
Thanks. H2O Man Mar 2016 #31
Every new detail we learn about her is worse. pdsimdars Mar 2016 #30
It is disappointing. H2O Man Mar 2016 #32
Thank you once again, H20 Man. democrank Mar 2016 #44
Thank you. H2O Man Mar 2016 #46
Indeed. moondust Mar 2016 #51
"What's good for Wall Street H2O Man Mar 2016 #52
Thank you H2O Man MuseRider Mar 2016 #53
Right? H2O Man Mar 2016 #57
Thanks. This is a primary reason why many Bernie supporters cannot, in good conscience, Zorra Mar 2016 #54
Thank you! H2O Man Mar 2016 #58
Unlike Obama, Sanders has done little to take advantage of HRC's vulnerability here BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #61
Thanks H2O Man Mar 2016 #62
I like the music! Sensitive soul Mar 2016 #63
It is good music. H2O Man Mar 2016 #64
You and Isaac Asimov apparently have the same blind spot. malthaussen Mar 2016 #67
Interesting. H2O Man Mar 2016 #72
" How do you justify the trade-off in values? " You can't. antigop Mar 2016 #70
There you go. H2O Man Mar 2016 #73
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #74
Thanks, Uncle Joe! H2O Man Mar 2016 #75
It was a wonderful day. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #76
"send them BACK!" "kick their ASS and take their GAS!" "drill HERE drill NOW!" MisterP Mar 2016 #79
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