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The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
15. Attacking Sanders is something that I should not do
Sun May 1, 2016, 01:38 AM
May 2016

I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff (especially socialism), but he is clearly a decent and kind man. But mere alerts are not the smack downs that these lies have coming. We need to know the answers to these lies and practice them here before in public. They will be repeated.


Here is my reply to the lie that she is about to be indicted:


The Sanders supporters don't seem to understand (or want to understand) that the FBI investigates what it is told to, and doesn't have the power to indict anybody. The DOJ has the power to bring to a grand jury (in D.C. in this case) in a secret proceeding, the secrecy of which cannot be broken in any way by the government, but by an accused only, and to ask the grand jury (of 24 local citizens serving for a year) to follow the recommendation of the prosecutor (the US Attorney for D.C.) as to whether they believe they have enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty such that the accused should be put to a trial. There is no target person of this FBI investigation. Neither Hillary Clinton, nor any of her assistants. There is no evidence they sought to mishandle information, nor that any information fell into the wrong hands, nor that there was such intent, when intent is critical. Hillary Clinton asked that an adequate server be set up and relied on experts to do so. Perhaps one of those experts over-represented his/her qualifications, even so, it would be stretching it to call it fraud.

For Fox and some of Sanders irresponsible supporters (not all of them) to insist that this is criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt that 24 citizens of DC would be led by the US Attorney to return an indictment on is, in the case of legal and political experts, a fraud on the public. No one with any expertise sincerely thinks this is going to happen, particularly in view of how the Benghazi committee had its ass seriously kicked by Hillary Clinton when she was under oath and not entitled to formally fight back on this issue. The non-expert might be forgiven for not knowing all these things and buying the propagandist lies because they haven't thought it through.

An indictment would require proving for 24 DC residents, by the US Attorney, that Hillary Clinton acted in bad faith in setting up a server similar to her predecessors for the same purpose and charging Colin Powell and Condi Rice too. This DOJ has preserved the long American tradition of not crapping all over public servants acting in good faith in doing their jobs. The only exceptions made have been people who deliberately compromised intelligence operations (Scooter Libby with the Plame affair) and whistleblowers who went to the press rather than through channels.

In short, people who think that Loretta Lynch is going to indict Hillary Clinton are completely out of their fucking stupid and ignorant minds because (1) the evidence isn't there; (2) we don't do that in this country (see the ancient Greeks for why not; (3) it is politically unlikely by the US Attorney and the DC residents.

If a lot of people ignore the facts and abuse their power (like Trey Gowdy and Fox News), it could happen in the same way that I could win the Powerball if I bought a ticket.

Now, if the Attorney General were a Republican, I could see it happening for political reasons. But she isn't.


Feel free to use parts you like and change them if necessary.

Thank you for this. n/t TDale313 May 2016 #1
Thank you so much, my dear moriah... CaliforniaPeggy May 2016 #2
Thank YOU, my dear Peggy... moriah May 2016 #16
... CaliforniaPeggy May 2016 #21
How very kind..... Silver_Witch May 2016 #3
Great post Duckhunter935 May 2016 #4
I hope so, too. moriah May 2016 #6
Thanks Moriah. That means a lot. jillan May 2016 #5
Sanders is still running a blistering campaign against Hillary bigtree May 2016 #7
I've missed XM Radio's Pouts 08 channel... moriah May 2016 #12
Thank you, bigtree! Cha May 2016 #23
+1000 stonecutter357 May 2016 #77
I think three-quarters of Sanders supporters will support the party The Second Stone May 2016 #8
Then alert... moriah May 2016 #10
Attacking Sanders is something that I should not do The Second Stone May 2016 #15
A simple change from "the Sanders supporters"... moriah May 2016 #19
That's a good point and a way to improve my post The Second Stone May 2016 #22
"fucking stupid and ignorant minds" Ghost Dog May 2016 #73
Try being truthful SwampG8r May 2016 #41
That is way worse Demsrule86 May 2016 #48
Me too everyone who has played fast and loose with national security SwampG8r May 2016 #58
She did not do any such thing Demsrule86 May 2016 #74
The emails with blumenthal disprove your premise SwampG8r May 2016 #79
So sayeth Gowdy, Faux News, misc RW hacks, and SwampG8r. Truthiness is clear!!! BootinUp May 2016 #94
Do y ou believe she had no contact witb blumenthal? SwampG8r May 2016 #106
Its reputable news sources and the pukes that have given it up. nt BootinUp May 2016 #107
Great post Demsrule86 May 2016 #47
There is a post Demsrule86 May 2016 #51
Well, she is quite clearly a liar and a warmonger. Vattel May 2016 #114
No there isn't. The Second Stone May 2016 #116
This guy survived a jury way back in July of last year. The train is leaving. LuvLoogie May 2016 #9
They've PPRed now, though. Nt moriah May 2016 #11
The admins did that. The jury let him slide. It's been like that this whole past year-- LuvLoogie May 2016 #13
I've never believed in "eye for an eye", though. moriah May 2016 #14
That's not too idealistic. lovemydog May 2016 #18
I understand. And it's admirable. But you have to come to terms with LuvLoogie May 2016 #20
... and not helping. moriah May 2016 #24
I agree with you. I know my comments are likely not helpful. LuvLoogie May 2016 #26
You may not intend the posts at other audiences... moriah May 2016 #30
I will remember your suggestion--and I agree, but my first comments in this subthread LuvLoogie May 2016 #32
Thank you for this artislife May 2016 #25
*chortle* LuvLoogie May 2016 #28
You won the jury. Tarheel_Dem May 2016 #29
I win some; I lose some. LuvLoogie May 2016 #34
How was ANY of that post hideworthy??! Number23 May 2016 #117
It wasn't. Should have been 0-7, AFAIC. Tarheel_Dem May 2016 #118
"It's been like that this whole past year" Bobbie Jo May 2016 #83
Yeah. I get what Moriah is saying, but many here should not be surprised at the pushback. LuvLoogie May 2016 #89
K & R! lovemydog May 2016 #17
You are a class act. Democratic Divo May 2016 #27
Thank you, I agree, ucrdem May 2016 #31
Maybe I should clarify what I meant by "batty"... moriah May 2016 #37
Good advice ucrdem May 2016 #119
Great post. I hope people on both side try to be more civil. nt eastwestdem May 2016 #33
I say, let people do what they will PowerToThePeople May 2016 #35
I object Demsrule86 May 2016 #52
Frankly, if you really want to win the long game, it is never time to gloat. Especially this game. highprincipleswork May 2016 #36
Don't worry, I won't vote Republican: Betty Karlson May 2016 #38
Same here. Those days are over. Katashi_itto May 2016 #45
... Betty Karlson May 2016 #67
In the end, we all have a right to our beliefs and opinions. seekthetruth May 2016 #39
That is an important point to make, and thank you for doing it. Xyzse May 2016 #40
Your intentions are noble but I can not be as magnanimous. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #42
What a smug attitude you have pretending that Hillary has already won the nomination. B Calm May 2016 #43
She has won the nomination Demsrule86 May 2016 #46
and your smugness continues. . B Calm May 2016 #49
I was being factual not smug Demsrule86 May 2016 #53
I am voting for Hillary and Kamala. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #54
I am voting for Hillary and I sure wish I could vote for Kamala Harris Demsrule86 May 2016 #61
Thank you. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #63
Good luck! Demsrule86 May 2016 #71
And see that is the problem Demsrule86 May 2016 #59
Maybe you need to read what the op is about! B Calm May 2016 #64
I read it and approve Demsrule86 May 2016 #70
Case in point -- my OP was called "smug". moriah May 2016 #96
It would be a good post except for 2 important factors: it is premature and this is a very different JudyM May 2016 #112
The delegate math looked bad for Hillary far earlier. moriah May 2016 #115
The harming comes from the Media and from even Hillary supporters here you keep saying bkkyosemite May 2016 #81
Hillary has won the nomination? Where is her acceptance speech? pinebox May 2016 #85
She doesn't have enough delegates AgingAmerican May 2016 #86
Yup, it's comical. Wishful thinking it's called pinebox May 2016 #87
If you feel I was smug, you too have the option of an alert or ignore button. moriah May 2016 #95
Well if we say anything much Demsrule86 May 2016 #44
It's difficult not to gloat... wyldwolf May 2016 #50
Personally Demsrule86 May 2016 #62
That remains to be seen wyldwolf May 2016 #68
Thanks Demsrule86 May 2016 #69
Excellent wyldwolf May 2016 #72
It's interesting Uponthegears May 2016 #103
Depends on who you ask wyldwolf May 2016 #104
Truth Uponthegears May 2016 #105
Still the left is responsible for much of that wyldwolf May 2016 #108
No doubt Uponthegears May 2016 #110
Nothing said on DU is going to make a bit sufrommich May 2016 #55
I know right? SHRED May 2016 #76
You are right, and I am wrong. NNadir May 2016 #56
Can't I at least sign my posts rock May 2016 #57
Experienced winners will tell you it is never the time to gloat. Gloating is in fact for losers Bluenorthwest May 2016 #60
Moriah, thanks for this thread. Karma13612 May 2016 #65
They are getting worse, not better. They have a lot of anger. Nt Logical May 2016 #66
As soon as Bernie utters the words "concede" or "withdraw" or "suspend" this will be over. Or ... NurseJackie May 2016 #75
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #82
" this posts has been hidden by a DU Jury" stonecutter357 May 2016 #78
Schadenfreude and Karma ! OhZone May 2016 #80
Not gloating, just returning Patiod May 2016 #84
people forget there are dozens and dozens of Hillary supporters who could not be bothered with this bettyellen May 2016 #100
Thank you, but I don't think HRC losing in 2008 is comparable to Bernie. aikoaiko May 2016 #88
How about Dean supporters in 2004, then? moriah May 2016 #101
I know you're trying to be kind, and I appreciate that. aikoaiko May 2016 #109
This was a lovely and admirable post. It is how it should be, not how it is going to be. seabeyond May 2016 #90
Too little, too late. 99Forever May 2016 #91
While I applaud your sentiment... ljm2002 May 2016 #92
The gloating is in response realmirage May 2016 #93
That's why I spoke of provocation and personal responsibility. moriah May 2016 #99
Not saying I condone it realmirage May 2016 #113
No gloating, but it's become very hard to bite one's tongue. Beacool May 2016 #97
It IS difficult. I'm not denying that. moriah May 2016 #98
Very well put. Argue the issues, not the candidate. eom guillaumeb May 2016 #102
Well said. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #111
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