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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
66. This "deferring to her ex-boss" line is baloney.
Fri Sep 18, 2015, 04:52 PM
Sep 2015

I want to know what each candidate, if elected, would do about that major issue that the next President will face in early 2018. My problem is that I don't know know what the question will be. All I have to go on is their records with past decisions and what they say now -- about their general principles and about how they would handle specific decisions that we can ask them about.

It's likely that the Keystone issue will be resolved, one way or the other, before January 20, 2017. That doesn't matter. Hearing a specific answer from each candidate is valuable to get an idea of how they'll handle other issues.

I completely agree with the OP about Clinton's tendency toward vagueness and platitudes. I also think that, in the long run, she's doing herself no favors. Her biggest problem isn't that millions of Democrats might disagree with her about the Keystone pipeline. Her biggest problem is that millions of Democrats, including many who plan to vote for her anyway, see her as being excessively "political" -- of saying whatever will advance her candidacy rather than fighting for her genuine convictions. Any specific statement about Keystone would lose her some votes from the people who disagree with her but would get her more votes from people who would gain respect for her.

ETA: After I wrote the above, I read today's electoral-vote.com and found agreement:


Clinton to Give Keystone Pipeline View Soon


Yesterday in New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton said that the construction of the Keystone Pipeline is one of her favorite issues—but she wouldn't say whether she was for it or against it. In a nutshell, this is her problem with a sizable chunk of the Democratic Party. She is too cautious and many people think she doesn't really stand for anything. It is like saying: "Wait, when I get the focus group results back, I'll let you know what I really think." She could probably defend either a yes or a no and get some credibility with the left wing of her party. If she is for it, the argument is that making the U.S. more self sufficient in energy means fewer wars in the Middle East about oil. That would sell. If she is against the pipeline, she could say it is for environmental reasons. But not having an opinion is where Sen. Bernie Sanders trumps (sorry) her. Sanders is against it and has always been against it. Clinton doesn't seem to realize that her sitting on the fence doesn't really help her.
OH PLEASE!!!!! bigdarryl Sep 2015 #1
Typical Non-Response billhicks76 Sep 2015 #51
I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt Boomer Sep 2015 #100
I Stopped After Seeing Her Ties To Bush Sr billhicks76 Sep 2015 #109
Heh. SusanCalvin Sep 2015 #136
she can craft the answer that gets the most votes. AlbertCat Sep 2015 #145
Good Hillary type response. Katashi_itto Sep 2015 #117
You got the number one response slot and all you've got is that? nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #153
7 out of context snippets each logically unworthy of any conclusion sown together to reach another conclusion? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #2
hardly. she's consistently evasive. it's who she is cali Sep 2015 #4
big Daryl and Fred defend her no matter what. roguevalley Sep 2015 #45
So, where does she stand on the Keystone Pipeline? We know where sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #5
The OP is a logical trainwreck, there is nothing to discuss, which was my point. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #7
Where does your candidate stand on the Keystone Pipeline? This is an easy sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #12
There are 7 clipped quotes to reach 7 conclusions in the post, and 1 final one, all unconvincing, that is all I am saying. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #24
There are not 7 conclusions, only 1 ram2008 Sep 2015 #30
Plenty of time until it's too late. Fuddnik Sep 2015 #31
Exactly. SusanCalvin Sep 2015 #137
Thank you. I am completely opposed to the Pipeline and have been since it sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #46
Believe me, I am as passionate about the Keystone pipeline as any other thing. If Clinton comes Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #48
if she is not willing to take a stance on major policy issues questionseverything Sep 2015 #81
+1 BeanMusical Sep 2015 #140
No debates to this point Thespian2 Sep 2015 #106
"...plenty of time for clarity and persuasion." Paka Sep 2015 #93
Well, we know where YOU stand, then...there's still no good reason for your candidate to be vague. Ken Burch Sep 2015 #102
It is defeatist. LuvNewcastle Sep 2015 #120
I dont understand. Bubzer Sep 2015 #55
Post removed Post removed Sep 2015 #71
It's easy to say the OP is a "logical trainwreck" but harder to actually give evidence. Tell us her rhett o rick Sep 2015 #155
Which way is the wind blowing? 840high Sep 2015 #41
+1 leftofcool Sep 2015 #6
She has a loyalty to this administration and really doesn't want to undermine Obama. Laser102 Sep 2015 #29
That is so perfectly logical a thought that I am sure you will be soon be showered with praise. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #36
I thought her loyalty was JackInGreen Sep 2015 #42
The Constitution? I didn't think any of these issues threaten our Constitution. Laser102 Sep 2015 #60
she is seeking the trust of our votes and refuses roguevalley Sep 2015 #94
And she will captain her ship JackInGreen Sep 2015 #103
. merrily Sep 2015 #130
Jenga!!! bvar22 Sep 2015 #50
+1 cui bono Sep 2015 #80
I don't think loyalty to the administration has a thing to do with this. merrily Sep 2015 #125
Except she's already attacked this administration jeff47 Sep 2015 #92
Bingo. She doesn't want to answer the question. It's that simple and it's obvious. merrily Sep 2015 #126
If her loyalty to the Obama administration prevents her from taking her owwn stances on things, JDPriestly Sep 2015 #101
Bingo. nt SusanCalvin Sep 2015 #146
It doesn't do anything to affect this adminstration for HRC or anyone else running in 2016 Ken Burch Sep 2015 #104
Her opinions don't affect Obama AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #149
Oh plez. That's a terrible rationalization. If she wants to be president she should tell us how rhett o rick Sep 2015 #156
I think the correct spelling is "colander" - you know, the thing with lots of holes in it? erronis Sep 2015 #47
If they are out of context, then you can put them into context for us? Bubzer Sep 2015 #52
So, what are her positions on the aforementioned topics? Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2015 #67
Please post her statements expressing her stance on each of the issues she equivocated on in her JDPriestly Sep 2015 #98
Then please find us her "in context" responses that actually tell us where she stands. I can't rhett o rick Sep 2015 #154
We can add fracking and college tuition to the list in the OP to which she has failed to rhett o rick Sep 2015 #159
Why is she 'putting the administration on notice'?? What does the administration sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #3
It's a use of language that more than equates her with Obama HereSince1628 Sep 2015 #9
It is sort of the perfect non-answer kenfrequed Sep 2015 #10
Well, it makes her look like she doesn't want to tell us where she stands. That's sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #14
Her advisors want to keep her fluid kenfrequed Sep 2015 #20
+100000000000000 azmom Sep 2015 #33
It's a meaningless, tough-sounding slogan n/t arcane1 Sep 2015 #28
I can't believe the interview with Wolf MattP Sep 2015 #8
Hillary has too much class to call anyone a liar. leftofcool Sep 2015 #13
She could stand to use better words now to state her positions the op listed. Bubzer Sep 2015 #56
completely agree ibegurpard Sep 2015 #11
Welcome to Hillary's Waffle House nichomachus Sep 2015 #15
I Was Just Thinking The Same Thing The River Sep 2015 #19
^^^this^^^ & The only thing she doesn't waffle on is war. L0oniX Sep 2015 #25
ROFLMAO SoapBox Sep 2015 #35
Mmmm, policy waffles Fairgo Sep 2015 #65
Thanks for the laugh Depaysement Sep 2015 #95
Assuming you can get in. A lot of the time, there's just no access. merrily Sep 2015 #128
Yet she's the only one cranking out actual policy proposals. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #16
What are her policies on the Keystone Pipeline? On the TPP? On the sabrina 1 Sep 2015 #18
Cue some comment about getting all that information at the debates. Bubzer Sep 2015 #57
I realize that quantum physics and recent quantum chromodynamics theories suggest ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2015 #21
Ah, more insults from the Bernie crowd. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #26
look who's talking. ah, the irony of you of all people cali Sep 2015 #39
You've laid out plenty of insults as well. Bubzer Sep 2015 #61
Yeah ibegurpard Sep 2015 #70
designated martyr MoveIt Sep 2015 #75
Hair shirts for everyone! Scootaloo Sep 2015 #89
Brownie points for cool vocabulary! kjones Sep 2015 #142
I see your fan club is out and about. leftofcool Sep 2015 #90
Ah, your fans are here... Katashi_itto Sep 2015 #118
Oh yeah. Puglover Sep 2015 #124
As best I can recall, during my first few months here, I was timid. Posted a lot of LOLs and K & Rs merrily Sep 2015 #131
Oh, I suspect she's been around more than that Scootaloo Sep 2015 #150
It would be real easy to counter what the "Bernie crowd" is saying by actually giving us some rhett o rick Sep 2015 #158
Lol! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #27
Yeah. That one is a keeper. sarge43 Sep 2015 #32
! Fuddnik Sep 2015 #37
what a load of garbage ibegurpard Sep 2015 #43
Its easy when industry writes them for you! MoveIt Sep 2015 #74
Huh? smiley Sep 2015 #83
"She's the only one cranking out policy proposals". "He's cranking out policy proposals..." DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2015 #91
What policy questions has Bernie refused to answer? JDPriestly Sep 2015 #105
LOL! merrily Sep 2015 #129
There are no "policy proposals". The OP gives her stands on issues. If you have better info rhett o rick Sep 2015 #157
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Sep 2015 #17
Hillary is desperate to avoid debates. backscatter712 Sep 2015 #22
Infuriating to people who already hate her, sure. Some people prefer the GWB "I don't do nuance" DanTex Sep 2015 #23
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #53
Yes, wanting to hear definitive policy positions is a clear sign of hate. Scuba Sep 2015 #121
She hasn't been told what to think by her owners hifiguy Sep 2015 #34
Sleepwalking through the issues AgingAmerican Sep 2015 #38
However, she is excellent at evolving (aka waffling) and speaks argle-bargle fluently. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #40
of course, she has to run everything by her marketing team and image consultants. bowens43 Sep 2015 #44
And Goldman. hifiguy Sep 2015 #63
As a supporter of the Fight for $15, I'm furious, for sure Dems to Win Sep 2015 #49
Unkind to HRC. I'm sure she meant that the minimum wage should be higher than $15 in places merrily Sep 2015 #132
The pattern is to consider both sides to be wrong and devise a plan to get both sides to shut up. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2015 #54
they honestly think this waffling will let them appeal to both sides of any issue MisterP Sep 2015 #58
I have noticed that she doesn't give Duval Sep 2015 #59
There should be no confusion houston_radical Sep 2015 #62
K&R - Great questions. Good OP.. It's esp. disturbing seeing all 7 in one place. -nt- 99th_Monkey Sep 2015 #64
This "deferring to her ex-boss" line is baloney. Jim Lane Sep 2015 #66
i don't understand why this is such a difficult task for clinton elana i am Sep 2015 #68
So just how many things have been listed upaloopa Sep 2015 #69
Just checked the website houston_radical Sep 2015 #73
So she has positions right? upaloopa Sep 2015 #76
Seriously? houston_radical Sep 2015 #78
propaganda site. nuff said cali Sep 2015 #85
None of this bodes well for an HRC presidency. Secretive? Evasive? Dismissive senz Sep 2015 #72
"Secretive, evasive, dismissive." hifiguy Sep 2015 #77
Thanks for that. It's been a long time senz Sep 2015 #84
That's a pretty low bar. hifiguy Sep 2015 #86
Yep he was one of the worst. But even he was better than senz Sep 2015 #115
I've probably read at least a dozen books on Nixon. hifiguy Sep 2015 #166
So you're comparing Hillary to Richard Nixon now? ConservativeDemocrat Sep 2015 #97
Your link is, at least temporarily, unpersuasive. Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #112
It's fair in some respects hifiguy Sep 2015 #165
The worst aspects of all of the last three administrations put together. The Green Manalishi Sep 2015 #107
Depressing indeed. senz Sep 2015 #116
Did a Google Search on two issues where HRC is mum d_legendary1 Sep 2015 #79
It shows her cowardice and lack of conviction Android3.14 Sep 2015 #82
Passive and indecisive Scootaloo Sep 2015 #87
That is a whopper totally beyond description. hifiguy Sep 2015 #88
Among several big reasons this is #1 for me. Indepatriot Sep 2015 #96
Perfectly Clear portlander23 Sep 2015 #99
Perfect timing, thanks for the laugh! canoeist52 Sep 2015 #108
"I hope that clarifies and that this could be the last word on those words..." sorechasm Sep 2015 #167
It's good politics. Kang Colby Sep 2015 #110
But the nomination doesn't belong to her. Maedhros Sep 2015 #162
She has to catch the fly ball first, and then catch the guy stealing third base. sorechasm Sep 2015 #168
She's like Jello. Try to nail her down. EEO Sep 2015 #111
These don't represent all of her replies but ... Kablooie Sep 2015 #113
You forget what she does say. She thinks Congress is shameful towards women for defunding Planned McCamy Taylor Sep 2015 #114
Yeah, she's all heart... Ino Sep 2015 #119
Lol! BeanMusical Sep 2015 #152
K&R Thanks, ram2008. Scuba Sep 2015 #122
Most issues don't have clear definitive answers. DCBob Sep 2015 #123
here's how you answer then: ibegurpard Sep 2015 #127
Ms. WindFinger von Weathervane. [nt] Jester Messiah Sep 2015 #133
It was a viable strategy when she was running unopposed Babel_17 Sep 2015 #134
This is the kind of thread that turns us against each other Onlooker Sep 2015 #135
I have no problem being "against" Hillary supporters. Maedhros Sep 2015 #164
Her non-answers reveal her positions. I can answer pretty accurately for you. NorthCarolina Sep 2015 #138
This ^ AlbertCat Sep 2015 #147
Kick and R BeanMusical Sep 2015 #139
...and don't forget! disndat Sep 2015 #141
She's saying what most politicians would say to avoid confrontation 4dsc Sep 2015 #143
Shhhhhhhhhh! AlbertCat Sep 2015 #144
I'll Have More To Say On This........... NonMetro Sep 2015 #148
Almost like the tRump Faux pas Sep 2015 #151
Yes a couple more are college tuition and fracking. Her responses to both were rhetoric. rhett o rick Sep 2015 #160
It may be infuriating to many rock Sep 2015 #161
she's running a perfect pre-internet campaign: all image and no substance yurbud Sep 2015 #163
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