2016 Postmortem

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

11. What you believe is not at issue and doesn't matter. nt

Reply to Major Hogwash (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 13, 2015, 09:57 AM

Oct 2015

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Will Bernie Sanders engage in demagoguery against Hillary Clinton re Iraq War Resolution [View all] stevenleser Oct 2015 OP

So Hillary is wrong for saying her vote was wrong? MannyGoldstein Oct 2015 #1

Maybe Steve should manplain all of this to Hillary... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #91

did you find a cute new word in your lexicon? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #119

If I didn't say mansplain, no one would have responded WhaTHellsgoingonhere Oct 2015 #134

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT WORD Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #142

Men are allowed to mansplain when they are given appropriate pre-authorization, huh? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #141

No. Hillary can say she was wrong. It's only wrong for OTHER PEOPLE to point it out! reformist2 Oct 2015 #137

Why don't you ask the 5000 dead American soldiers who fought and died in that war? Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #2

Who would have died anyway if the IWR hadnt passed because Iraq would have been in breach of stevenleser Oct 2015 #3

You've spent as much time in the military as Donald Trump!!! Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #5

Your assumption is incorrect. I'm former active duty USAF. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #6

Sure you are, Steve. Major Hogwash Oct 2015 #7

What you believe is not at issue and doesn't matter. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #11

"What you believe is not at issue and doesn't matter" arcane1 Oct 2015 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Oct 2015 #93

OMG really....you are publically calling Steve a liar on this? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #43

^^This is the sure sign of an alert being sent^^ DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #106

If it hasn't been alerted on yet, it certainly deserves it Sheepshank Oct 2015 #107

You can do better than that. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #115

in what way, Charlie? Sheepshank Oct 2015 #117

I believe it was "...in what respect, Charlie?" DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #118

so you agree with the sentiment that Sheepshank Oct 2015 #120

Keep trying. And good luck. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #121

Yep. This is the kind of discourse you get from a lot of these folks. But they are quick stevenleser Oct 2015 #122

So said the "writer" bvf Oct 2015 #150

Lol, let me know when you have something interesting or relevant to say. stevenleser Oct 2015 #160

When you've demonstrated a basic mastery bvf Oct 2015 #169

I can't believe the "you didn't serve" card was just pulled out on you on a progressive site. nt. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #19

The quality of debate we get from Sanders supporters here is abysmal. stevenleser Oct 2015 #22

Have a team standing by! William769 Oct 2015 #38

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #76

You're really pointing the finger at Hillary supporters regarding teaming up? stevenleser Oct 2015 #87

Berned. William769 Oct 2015 #95

LOL, Berned-out! stevenleser Oct 2015 #101

Now just a cotton-pickin' minute there! KamaAina Oct 2015 #130

Capt. Nelson Muntz calls the major into his office to say KamaAina Oct 2015 #112

;-) stevenleser Oct 2015 #127

Wow. I didn't think even Republicans believed that load anymore! Give it up already. reformist2 Oct 2015 #139

How many americans died from unrestricted gun insanity right here at home workinclasszero Oct 2015 #9

because if only we could sue the manufacturers retrowire Oct 2015 #77

Uhm kenfrequed Oct 2015 #83

While Hillary was quietly raking in profits from gun sales sitting on the BOD and as a shareholder Snotcicles Oct 2015 #100

Hillary's views on guns are well known workinclasszero Oct 2015 #111

I think you should quit pointing your finger at other candidates until you look at Snotcicles Oct 2015 #113

+ 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 orpupilofnature57 Oct 2015 #151

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #4

Bush misused the AUMF? neverforget Oct 2015 #8

a freakin men. ^^^^this x 10000^^^^ nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #10

And that exactly what you are doing is engaging in demagoguery and revisionism. stevenleser Oct 2015 #12

Oh for God's sake Steve. Everyone knew Bush wanted to invade Iraq. The inspectors was the excuse neverforget Oct 2015 #14

Assuming for a moment that's true. Not voting for IWR would have given him justification. stevenleser Oct 2015 #15

And once the inspectors were readmitted they reported to the UN and the world that there were no WMD George II Oct 2015 #27

Exactly. That made the Iraq war an unprovoked war of aggression because there was no basis stevenleser Oct 2015 #31

See here, Fred, or whoever RobertEarl Oct 2015 #29

Do you remember all that cooking of intelligence? Stove-piping the intel? neverforget Oct 2015 #41

Sure. But do you understand what the issue is here with international law? stevenleser Oct 2015 #54

How did everyone "know bush wanted to invade Iraq"? I keep hearing that but no one.. George II Oct 2015 #25

That's why I didn't address it other than to say "assuming that's true" because it requires us to stevenleser Oct 2015 #32

Here you go neverforget Oct 2015 #49

I've seen all of that stuff, but it wasn't known until 2004 or even later. George II Oct 2015 #55

Yep. This is a common aspect of the revisionism on this. People take things that happened on certain stevenleser Oct 2015 #58

The revisionism is with you. neverforget Oct 2015 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author stevenleser Oct 2015 #84

I see your mistake. There is another interpretation here. stevenleser Oct 2015 #85

LOL! Just the fact that they wanted to invade Iraq on 9/11 but had to make neverforget Oct 2015 #88

And you and the rest of us knew that before the legislation passed? George II Oct 2015 #136

Plans For Iraq Attack Began On 9/11 neverforget Oct 2015 #161

No matter how many times you or others repeat that, it was a secret until a year or two AFTER... George II Oct 2015 #164

Except for this CBS news link from Sept 2002, no one knew about it. neverforget Oct 2015 #167

And on what date did the bush administration inform Congress and the rest of the country... George II Oct 2015 #99

You can't seriously be making this argument. Marr Oct 2015 #145

It wasn't difficult to figure out that Bush and Cheney specifically had surrounded themselves neverforget Oct 2015 #81

You understand that Iraq was still in breach of international law at this time, right? stevenleser Oct 2015 #86

Yes Caretha Oct 2015 #171

PNAC had called for war with Iraq before 9/11 jfern Oct 2015 #129

"Lie"? C'mon-- this is absurd. /nt Marr Oct 2015 #144

So why wasn't there a trigger in the authorization? jeff47 Oct 2015 #53

Not at all. But they think we are. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #57

There were arguments in congress for how much teeth to put in the trigger. Ultimately stevenleser Oct 2015 #62

So yes, you think they are idiots. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #65

You are characterizing voting to support international law as being idiots? An interesting stevenleser Oct 2015 #66

No, I'm characterizing a blank check as being idiots. jeff47 Oct 2015 #172

Wasn't that the Levin Amendment? NobodyHere Oct 2015 #162

Everyone knew Bush wanted to get his war on jfern Oct 2015 #125

$250 million of US taxpayer dollars were funding that propaganda campaign jfern Oct 2015 #126

Iraq had already agreed unconditionaly in September to readmit the inspectors. Vattel Oct 2015 #156

Exactly. bvf Oct 2015 #13

Assuming that's true, thank you for kicking my OP with a post! stevenleser Oct 2015 #17

Always happy to put the spotlight on bvf Oct 2015 #131

petty.....it's about as pathetic as a post can get on DU. n/t Sheepshank Oct 2015 #45

+1.nt Snotcicles Oct 2015 #48

Exactly. See my #22 above. More Roto-Rooter posts. stevenleser Oct 2015 #96

Obviously you never read the document. "It was The Authorization for the use of Military Force".... George II Oct 2015 #37

the entire situation was manipulated, and the media were willing participants. Bernie voted against still_one Oct 2015 #105

So, now her yes vote was the right vote? Broward Oct 2015 #16

I think it should all be fair game tonight. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #18

Don't trust the source. artislife Oct 2015 #20

If he really wanted to demagogue he could pull out your quote LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #21

That would be fantastic. I think you should call him up and tell him to do that. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #23

He wouldn't take that advice LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #39

p.s., thank you for kicking my OP! nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #24

Schlitzie himself would have probably given bvf Oct 2015 #135

unbelievable ibegurpard Oct 2015 #26

All my points are supported. Your beliefs on responsibility for the Iraq war are simply wrong stevenleser Oct 2015 #34

the revisionist history is coming from you ibegurpard Oct 2015 #40

Nope, all my points are supported. The arguments on the other side are all emotional. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #59

Was Hillary fooled by Bush and Cheney or was it political cowardice that drove her decision? virtualobserver Oct 2015 #50

it was political expediency ibegurpard Oct 2015 #79

oops- fortunately we only experienced "modest and acceptable" casualties virtualobserver Oct 2015 #90

Like Vietnam, it was a war fought for PR. And, like Vietnam, we lost the war. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #28

Yawn x2 cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #30

"That President George W. Bush misused the Iraq War Resolution..... George II Oct 2015 #33

Why could I see what a mistake it was from my couch, when Hillary couldn't see it from Washington? virtualobserver Oct 2015 #46

to think her very own husband was privy to daily CIA briefings reddread Oct 2015 #124

So the people voting for the AUMF were idiots. jeff47 Oct 2015 #56

Nope, they were voting to support international law that Iraq was violating at the time. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #64

Which could be accomplished without a blank check. So why pass a blank check jeff47 Oct 2015 #73

It wouldn't have mattered. stevenleser Oct 2015 #75

Then that would make it very easy to include a trigger. jeff47 Oct 2015 #80

I wonder if he understands your point or is just choosing to ignore it. Vattel Oct 2015 #143

I think he understands but doesn't want to address it. jeff47 Oct 2015 #173

Birdcage lining Z_California Oct 2015 #35

Yes, your response is birdcage lining. It doesnt address any points in the OP. stevenleser Oct 2015 #36

Did more Americans die in Iraq or from gun violence since 2003? nt LexVegas Oct 2015 #42

Wait, it's now demagoguery to challenge people on their voting record? WTF!? Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #44

Hillary knew exactly what she was doing, she knew what Bush was gling to do. She supported him. morningfog Oct 2015 #51

We'll ask you again in 8 years, when you will have the opposite conclusion. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #52

Nope, I believed this 9 years ago. There is no other conclusion. This is supported by fact. stevenleser Oct 2015 #60

Whoooooooooooosh jeff47 Oct 2015 #67

Nope, not wooosh. Giving you the opportunity to take the high road, and you chose the low one. stevenleser Oct 2015 #69

I'm afraid it's the muck covering your body, not everyone around you. jeff47 Oct 2015 #71

Yes, I know, no one is entitled to change their mind but Saint Bernard. Keep pushing that meme! stevenleser Oct 2015 #72

Those that actually change their mind can explain the change. jeff47 Oct 2015 #74

I explained the change. You are just desperate to hang onto the meme. That's how bad the arguments stevenleser Oct 2015 #78

A discredited blogger and pundit with zero integrity TM99 Oct 2015 #61

I didn't know you were a blogger and pundit. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. p.s... stevenleser Oct 2015 #63

If you are getting anything other than TM99 Oct 2015 #68

Again, thank you for kicking my op! nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #70

he probably is getting several strokes wendylaroux Oct 2015 #89

I read these replies and have to remind myself that they're coming from a grown man and "journalist" frylock Oct 2015 #104

...^ that 840high Oct 2015 #94

Integrity, honesty, shame LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #109

Contortionists coming out of the woodwork. moondust Oct 2015 #92

A Fuk News contributor. cpompilo Oct 2015 #97

So Clinton is wrong when she says her Iraq War Resolution vote was a mistake? n/t PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #98

I find all this very silly, sadoldgirl Oct 2015 #102

Will Hillary Clinton be called to task for her poor decision making? frylock Oct 2015 #103

Who would of thought in 2015 there would be people defending the invasion of Iraq Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #108

People defending the Iraq invasion calling themselves Democrats no less LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #110

conservative profiteers who want both parties to themselves reddread Oct 2015 #123

Yup Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #157

No one is defending the invasion of Iraq. That is your straw man. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #128

stick to being a token "liberal" on Fox News. ibegurpard Oct 2015 #152

Stick to using logical fallacies in your arguments. Nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #158

If you say so Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #155

I wrote it so yeah, I know what I wrote. If you want to talk about it try reading it. Nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #159

no thank you Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #166

Hillary knew exactly what she was doing jfern Oct 2015 #114

I hope she is pummeled for that morally bankrupt vote. AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #116

I must be a revisionist HassleCat Oct 2015 #132

K & R, good article, Steve. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #133

You mean her voting record as an elected official is supposed to be off limits? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #138

You are the one who misrepresented Bernie's stance on Assault Weapons. Motown_Johnny Oct 2015 #140

This is such bullshit. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #146

Sorry Steven, gotta disagree with the notion that it would fit the definition of "demagoguery"... phleshdef Oct 2015 #147

Sure hope so. Truth is demagoguery to the promoters of the fictions that led to war. mmonk Oct 2015 #148

Your history is incomplete in certain crucial respects. Vattel Oct 2015 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author A-Schwarzenegger Oct 2015 #153

Demagoguery? U of M Dem Oct 2015 #154

Iraq and Clinton Foundation donations. And TPP and probably NAFTA, artfully or otherwise. ucrdem Oct 2015 #163

Wrong question. John Poet Oct 2015 #165

Sounds like the interventionist wing is cooking up a rationale to start a war if they are stupidly TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #168

You use the word "demagoguery" like Cheney used the word "do-gooders". Marr Oct 2015 #170